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Jun
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Last Sunday we drove a few hours east in search of sunshine and death-distraction (did I tell you how our 15-year-old Lab has been diagnosed with a failing heart and a mass in her throat that may or may not be cancer? Did we want to subject her to a biopsy and treatment, they asked us, and we chose Shitty Answer #2 of the Potential Shitty Answers to that question and said no we did not) and we found ourselves in a place called Moses Lake. It turns out that Moses Lake is where every single person on earth goes on Memorial Day weekend in order to camp in the gritty sand dunes and ride ATVs, but we found some quiet, lovely spots too.
I love that the boys are getting old enough so that we can do spontaneous trips like that. I mean, I know it’s technically possible with babies and toddlers but the logistics alone always preemptively drained me of my will to live. Traveling with the two of them isn’t exactly a soothing spa journey complete with a hot stone massage, but it isn’t quite the clenched-jaw white-knuckler it used to be, either.
I do have a question that’s somewhat related to the recent experience of sharing a small hotel room—for the fellow parents in the crowd, how do you deal with Extreme Kid Craziness? Riley and Dylan constantly get in this mode where they’re playing and giggling and having fun but the chaos and volume control is off the charts. They’re screeching and carrying on and generally acting like rhesus monkeys on bathtub crank, and I find myself saying the same useless things over and over: Come on, guys. Calm down, now. Hey! Guys! I’m serious, you two need to quiet down RIGHT THIS MINUTE! and eventually I yell at them or do the 1-2-3 thing and send them to their rooms and later they come out all contrite and it all starts up AGAIN.
It’s like they don’t even listen until I totally lose my shit, and half the time I am nearly crazed with frustration because they aren’t paying attention, and the rest of the time I wonder if I’m the one that needs to chill because jeez, they’re just playing.
I don’t think I’m wrong in wanting to be able to curb the insanity, but I sure can’t seem to find an effective way to do it. I’d like a solution that doesn’t involve my eyeballs detaching themselves from my skull with the power of my mighty bellow, so if you have ideas, I am listening.
Not that I can hear anything over this goddamned racket, that is.
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70 Responses to “Last stop, crazytown”
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Hotel with a pool, or drugs (for you, not them)
I’m not sure if it would apply to your boys, but I’m reading the book Simplicity Parenting right now and its really striking a chord with me. After watching the struggles for some of the kids in my life, I think there’s alot to his recommended parenting style that I’ll preemptively include in mine. Though, for the record, I am trying for balance around TVs and computers (for the adults, my kid is still an infant) not a ban. My husband would probably file for divorce if I tried to ban them.
First off – sorry to hear about your dog. We lost our black lab of 11 years back in December right after we moved here to NC from Detroit and it was really fucking horrible, still is actually.
About the child craziness, I’m sorry to say that I have no effective advice. I have one 3 yr old son and he is constantly bouncing off the walls if I don’t constantly redirect him. He has his calm moments but they are few and far between. My ongoing dialogue with him is “Chill Out. Calm Down.” I feel like a broken record and, like you, I wonder if this is just normal. The other moms I’ve discussed this with seem to think it is – for boys anyway. Aren’t we lucky we didn’t have girls :/
Poor Dog. One of our dogs will be 14 this year, he is covered with warts and fatty tumors.
Great picture of your three boys! So sorry to hear about dog’s situation. It’s a tough situation, no matter what.
About the boys, I have neighbors with similarly rambunctious kids, and I’ve often wondered how they travel. I figure, as a bystander, energy is normal from kids like that. Let ‘em run a little long on the leash and then if it’s crowded or late, bring the hammer down. Vacation means letting go a little and in the hotel, if they’re going bananas (and if the front desk staff hasn’t appropriately set the cranky old people on the other side of the hotel) just keep ‘em from breaking stuff and shut it down at night time. Call ahead and let the front desk know you have a strong, energetic family. They’ll appreciate the “warning” and be better able to accomodate all of their guests.
p.s. if anyone ever complains about your kids, all you EVER owe anyone at most is a single apology. No shame. If they’re snooty, screw ‘em. If not, they communicated, you received. Deal = done at that point.
The energy is normal, but they also need to know that Mom or Dad are serious whether they’re yelling or not. Our kids never had much of a problem with this because they knew that the next thing coming after the first announcement that it was time to settle down was punishment (a little, carefully discussed swat, or a restriction from privileges), and not an escalation of parental emotion. Because they knew this, the actual punishment almost never had to happen. We could take them anywhere with only very rare issues… they were the kids in restaurants whom strangers would approach with praise about their behavior. (They behave fine now, too, but at eleven and fifteen that’s more normal. :) )
I realize that this is not a popular point of view… but you asked. :)
To clarify re: my kids: just reread that and wanted to make it crystal-clear that the punishment only happened if they *didn’t* settle down when told to do so. If they did, all was fine and happy. :)
I’m sorry to hear about Dog. That is indeed Shitty.
As for the kid question, I can recite “calm down, tone it down, chill out” repetitively all the live long day and it makes little to no difference, really. The ONLY thing that works in our house is to actively distract with something else. A game like Guess Who, or a book to read. If I don’t hand over a Distraction on a Silver Platter, nothing happens. I wonder when that phase will end? They’ll eventually listen to us, right? RIGHT?
Holy crap! I grew up in Moses Hole! Next time you want to make that escape, I can recommend some MUCH better, quieter lakes in the same area. I always feel bad for people that go to M. Lake for their first go at Eastern WA summer because…well, it’s not that great and there are so many other great ones. Anything in the Sun Lakes area or Steamboat Rock is great. I personally love Billy Clapp Lake because it stays cold enough that nothing grows.
But, the banshee kids in the hotel, oh GOD do I feel you. Ours a little older, so we can explain “Hel-LO, other people!” but the best I can figure is if we haven’t been able to sufficiently exhaust them before returning to the room, then we turn to the exciting escapade of “Hey! Who wants to go find the ICE!” (Looking back on my childhood stays in hotels, we seemed to always have a bucket of ice that NO ONE used, so maybe my parents were onto something there.) Personally, I’m more distressed by the “how do 4 people with completely different sleep schedules all go to sleep in one room?” problem, myself.
I don’t have kids, so I am completely talking out of my ass here, but maybe you are taking too long to show them the consequences of their actions. Instead of taking time trying to convince them to calm down, maybe you should go straight to 1-2-3 when they act crazy. My mom did that (pretty inconsistently) but I’m guessing two girls are probably not as rhesus monkey-like as two boys. (Although, we were only a year and two weeks apart – and that was my mom’s personal version of hell. The only parenting lesson I know for sure – child spacing is important!)
And I’m sorry about your pupster. We are facing our own crappy options with our aging and ailing 11-year-old Rottie mix. It sucks.
Ahh the craziness of boys! I myself am surrounded by 2 of them (4 & 6) and am in a similar predicament. I have completely cut out television until after dinner, but that leaves more time for shooting, fighting and all out trying to kill each other. I do the 1,2,3 also but you are right, after they are sent to and released from their rooms, it inevitably starts all over again. I think it is just 2 boys together and we have to just deal with it. When my husband comes home and really gets them riled up, I have to leave the room cause I just can’t stand it! Deep breaths, I think this is just the way they are…..sigh….
And I’m terribly, terribly sorry about your dog.
I am retired and have lived in Central Mexico for several years now. And quite honestly, I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen/heard a child scream, cry, yell, be rude, or generally lose control. I have absolutely no idea why – diet, environment, parenting, who knows. But someone needs to figure it out, bottle it, and sell it to parents in the States. These kids may be poor – but the are well behaved, healthy, and usually happy.
I’ve never stayed in a hotel room with my two children.
That should give you an indication of how the thought makes me want to cry.
Sorry, I just realized I made this sound like it was all about how to keep the kids mellow in a hotel. I MEANT how do I deal with their insanity on a regular basis, like every single day around the house etc. We did actually manage to keep them quiet in the hotel, as I am suuuuuuper paranoid of bothering other people.
After living through getting a call from the hotel manager that my kids were running in the room and making too much noise and “people are complaining” (I was there: they weren’t out of control: the guy was an asshat)- I’m now paranoid in hotels about noise. And yes, I know what you mean about the constant noise, chaos that only ends when I lose my shit. I often think I should just start out losing my shit but I suppose that goes in the “bad parenting” column and shouldn’t be a goal. Sometimes nothing works – distracting them with other options is my usual trick but it doesn’t always work. Putting them in different rooms (from each other) sometimes helps – but then my youngest will find ways to amuse herself quietly which may or may not include doing things like “making an experiment” with all the spices in the kitchen.
A) Schedule. B) Zoloft. C) Get away from your own children whenever possible. For whatever amount of time possible. To either have fun or do nothing, but not to run errands or pay bills or whatever.
LOVE the picture of the little one peeking out from behind the chair! : ) : )
I don’t have a solution to the loud, but I will say its the #1 reason I just don’t think I could be a SAHM. I only have one born child (the second will be born this month), but even by herself she’s just too loud for me. I only work part-time, but its essential to my sanity to spend time around quiet adults.
My black lab has tumors everywhere, for the low price of 400 bucks we could find out if they were cancerous, or we could just let it go with no treatment. They removed 4, but I did not have them biopsy because even if it is cancer, I’m not giving her chemo and all that crap because she’s been too good of a dog for me to make her sick deliberately except if it would cure her which it wouldn’t.
Having just spent a weekend with my daughter and her family, husband and 4 kids, 15 – 3 years, I got nothing for keeping them quiet. The three oldest went fishing, but in the room it was chaos. I am much quicker to spank than they are, so they behaved around me mostly….
I loved the pic in the room, I didn’t see Dylan at first, lol, it’s a lair!!!!
I am so sad to hear about Dog. I was faced with the same choice in 2009 over a neuro issue and I went the way you did. Getting a diagnosis wasn’t going to change treatment. I miss the crap out of that dog every day, even though I love the stuffing out of the new one. Please give her a hug and a big kiss on the snout for me.
I’m so, so sorry to hear about Dog. Sorry I have no advice about the rambunctious boyos, the only noisy kids I have access to are nieces and nephews, and I let the parents deal with them.
Nothing. I can do nothing. My boys do the exact same thing, and that’s what helps: nothing. Great advice, from me to you!
Oh, so sad about Ashley (right?) I’ve been reading you since shortly after you got her. I don’t have children — my neurotic dogs ARE my kids — so I am especially sad to hear this. I’m so sorry, Linda. *sniff*
I’m so sorry to hear about Ashley. (I learned her name when you posted a clip of JB singing to her, whenever that was!) No kids here, but my dogs act kind of like Riley and Dylan when they play, so this post resonates with me as a weird hybrid issue. Just wanted to chime in with Dog sympathies.
So sorry to hear about Ashley. We had to put our 14 year old Ashley look-alike down last summer….she had a cancerous tumor on one of her front legs and arthritis in the other three and the only treatment for the tumor was amputation of the leg….simply not an option for a dog who loved to run and chase tennis balls and Frisbees. There is not a day goes by that we don’t miss her but we take solace in the fact that she had 14 great years and brought our family so much joy. She will let you know when it’s time….
I am a Nanny by trade, and have dealt with a particular family of cracked-out rhesus monkeys for the last four weeks, so perhaps I’m qualified to offer What Has Worked for Me:
(DISCLAIMER: My methods are unorthodox at times, but suitably Machiavellian.)
1) Playing “Cemetery”: Have kids lay supine with eyes closed. Tell them they can’t open eyes, move, speak, or giggle; until you return to “raise them from the dead” by touching them on the forehead. Anyone who breaks the rules has to wait longer to be a zombie. Dispense gory treats for continued quiet, shuffling zombie behavior.
2) Less macabre? Enlist kids to help clean the house, with atypical but age-appropriate and chemical-safe chores: I delegated shining glass windows and doors/stainless steel appliances, scrubbing walls and baseboards, washing down wood tables and chairs, sweeping/mopping/vacuuming- ANYTHING except “Pick up your toys/books/clothes” etc. They were eager to please, scrambling to outdo each other, and worked for a stunning length of time EVERY time suggested. (What is the sense of having dwarves, if they don’t WORK??) ;)
3) [Suggestion redacted- Fun, but might be too controversial, on second thought.]
4) If truly out of hand to being beyond the pale, especially with physical fighting involved, institute “Isolation”. This differs from time-out, in that essays (or rote pre-determined sentences) are written out by school-age children, outlining the offense and why it can’t happen again. The papers get shown to the parents. The kids DESPISE this, and hasn’t needed happen more than a few times. Younger children able to verbalize are recorded on a cell phone, in question-and-answer format, with the recording played for parents. Again, DESPISED. Now, Isolation only needs suggested, and they calm right down!
That should be a start, anyway. Readers, please don’t shoot the messenger! War is, after all, hell. :)
I’m so sorry to hear about Ashley (who fought for the LAW!). That’s no easy choice.
No advice but… a few weeks ago at our regular Friday night happy hour the adults were laughing a bit too loudly. Apparently. As my 3yo neighbor came over and – complete with hand signals – told us to “simmah, simmah, simmah down”. Her mom wonders out loud where she heard that.
I find myself yelling at my kids when they go nuts more than I’d like. I’m not at all sure what to do about it (though I LOVE the Isolation idea). Some things I try: 1) put them somewhere they can really go nuts & it doesn’t matter (not always possible) 2) feed them; I am always surprised when a crazy-acting child turns out to be hungry; or 3) lay out VERY SPECIFIC consequences and apply them quickly and dispassionately. #3 is very effective but (surprise!) very difficult for me to do. I’m working on it.
Hi.
Can we be bff’s while I am in the WA (like I was last weekend with my 8,5, and 1 yr old spawn trying to make the b.e.h.a.v.e and be.quiet while at the in law’s).
But really, best of luck – lemme know how it works out.
XO -
R
So sorry to hear about your dog. We have an 11 year old lab in a similar situation. No fun.
We are about 30 min out from Moses Hole, nice to see you on this side of the “Evergreen State”!
I have a six year old and a four year old who sound soooo similar to your kids! I don’t really have any advice, sorry, but I want you to know I TOTALLY feel ya. I swear it’s the closeness in age. My bro and I are eight years apart and NEVER behaved like my two kids (I think my parents would have killed us). Hotels terrify my because I really don’t want to be that family either…I just know that when we have our good days they are really, really good and those warm fuzzies tend to outweigh the days where I want to strip down, put a pot on my head and march down main street dancing….
Love your blog.
I don’t know, but if you figure out how to calm your kids down…can you please blog about it and let the rest of us desperate mothers know? I have two girls and let me tell you the screaming chaos isn’t any less with girls – its just less physical and a higher pitch, thus I’ll be most likely deaf by the time they reach college, if not before. As I like to say, we have two volume levels: loud and louder.
Good Luck.
Is it still cabin fever you’re experiencing? Maybe their craziness will be easier to handle once it starts raining less and you can send them outside, get a little vitamin D therapy yourself. I live in Eugene and I’m a daycare teacher (10 two-year-olds all damn day) so I feel your pain.
One thing I do with my kids, that I hope is a helpful idea for you, is let them lose their shit once or twice every day. Set a time limit, advise them of a super fun activity on the other side of crazy time, let them know that anyone unable to stop the crazy will need to take a body break with a stuffed animal (also known as “time out” in certain circles) until they’re ready to act like a human. Go crazy with them then set the calming-down example. Maybe if it’s a regular thing then they’ll be able to learn how to control their emotions all day so they won’t be driving you batty.
We also say a ton of shit like “inside voice please,” “only walking feet inside,” “please make a better safer choice,” “please don’t yell, I can only hear your nice talking words,” etc.; phrases I KNOW I am saying hundreds if not thousands of times each day. Do they listen? Fuck no. Kids are crazy. They’ll grow up. Are you watching So You Think You Can Dance? Shit helps me deal.
I have nothing to help, except that you are a saving grace today, as it is 8 AM, and all I can think of my 2 and 5 YO boys is “OMG there are 12 hours until bedtime and if they don’t kill each other, I will EAT THEM today, because that has to be the only way to calm them the F down since I have tried EVERYTHING else every hour of every other day of my life.”
I am sorry to hear about your dog. I worked in vet clinics and I’ve seen alot but I think you are making the right shitty choice for her if that is any consolation.
As for the monkey kids mine are to young for me to really relate personally but I remember spending a family reunion with my cousin and her 4 crazy boys and my mom telling me, you know the passive agressive style of telling someone else what to do by telling someone not involved, yeah I’ve got that family :) “I wouldn’t let you kids ignore me like that, just get down on bended knee and put your hands on the shoulders and talk to them.” I know having them repeat back what you said helps. I second the clear consequenses and disspaisonate follow through also. However that is really hard to do when you are also trying to cook, make a bed, do laundry, or write! I know why it doesen’t always happen.
Beautiful pics of the family
I’ve got 2 boys (2 & 4) and the noise/craziness/rhesus monkey chaos is increasing by the day. I know it will only get worse from here on out for the next few years. I’ll keep reading these comments and hope someone has some magic advice, but it looks like we’ll just have to pack up and move to Mexico!
I read a good book called “Stop Reacting, Start Responding,” on the advice of Moxie.
http://proactiveparenting.net/
The author points out that instructions like, “calm down, chill out, relax,” actually MEAN NOTHING to children. You have to model it, then show them explicitly what to do.
I’m sorry. I didn’t like that answer, either. (But it’s really helping)
This is where being a parent is the hardest, I think, because not only do you have to be endlessly patient, you have to be creative too. You have to come up with a different activity that’s calm and focused and totally appealing to rhesus monkeys on bathtub crank.
The book’s awesome, though, and easily read in one night. To prepare you for the next day’s chaos.
Good luck!
If Taube hadn’t pointed him out above, I would’ve completely missed Dylan in the hotel photo. Soooo cute!
I’m really sorry about Dog. She’s very lucky to be in your family.
Haven’t tried it myself, but my kids kindergarten teacher has them stand next to each other and go through a short routine of exercises – jumping jacks, jumping up and down, shaking out their arms, etc – and calls it “getting the crazies out” it’s possible it only works because it comes from the teacher, but it’s worth a try.
My 6 yr old talks about it -”we were out of control today at school, so Ms. H had us get our crazies out”
Worth a shot
Someone mentioned hunger, but I know those boys can’t be hungry all the time (yet – they aren’t teenagers going through a jumbo box of Cheerios and a gallon of milk each in a week yet!), but we’ve also noticed our 3yo gets to serious wild child mode when he is hungry.
Also burning out the energy. Sometimes they just need to MOVE. My husband is terrible at getting kiddo moving in the evenings after he gets him from daycare and some days kiddo is just a little monster. We play chase around the house (”I want mommy run” occasionally and that seems to help.
Have you considered hamster balls? :)
And I’m sorry about Dog. No easy choices there but less stress for her sounds the way to go.
I’m very sorry about Dog. We made that decision about a year ago and we miss him terribly. At the end, he was an old codger with some very specific quirks. As much as I love our new dog, I miss the cuddling I used to get from an old “guy” who was always happy to just chill out.
Enjoy her while you can, I know you will.
I can’t beLIEVE you are asking for the assvice, but here is my two cents: they aren’t listening and responding to you because…oh God I can’t believe I am going here, but…they know that there won’t be follow through until the tenth or so time you ask them to do it. If you put the hammer down the first time (time out, whatever), they will first of all be shocked as shit and probably freak out but after about the fifth time will respond right away because they know you mean business. And man, I am REALLY sorry about Dog. She is good people.
Oh, I’m so sorry about Ashley. I’m glad I got to meet her last fall — what a sweet, loving dog.
I give our girls ‘loud time’ so for 5 or 10 min a day they can go crazy, bounce, scream, whatever that isn’t breaking something. I can then tell them to save it for loud time and I engineer loud time to be some good time for us all.(never in the car!)
My experience does not uphold the “put the hammer down the first time and they will get it right in the future” principle stated so often everywhere. I have religiously- seriously- put the hammer down with the dreaded time out and the pre-dinner crazies come right back with my 2yo boy and 3.5yo girl. I have not had time to do the research to figure out when that whole “hammer down” thing actually works for them developmentally but it is NOT at these ages. Or my monkeys. Distraction works- but the whole point of this discussion is how to not have them be crazy when you’re trying to do something else (like make dinner)- right? Maybe it’s that they’re hungry. Or that the sugars from their pick up snack (fruit, or goldfish or whatever- it does not matter) are hitting them. I don’t know. It sucks though and I haven’t found a solution either. The repeated requests to calm your body down, take a deep breath, use your inside voice, play just on the rug where you might not die don’t work either- no matter how loudly they are made. It blows.
I have no advice on the kids, but my parents used to send us outside like wild animals; hopefully now that it’s a little nicer in your neck of the woods you can do the same.
Oh poor Dog and poor you guys. Sorry you’ve been hit with a fair amount of suck lately.
So sorry about Dog. We had to put our family Sheltie to sleep last March, and I still miss him every time I pull into my parents’ driveway. Sucks.
Re: craziness: the only thing that’s working with my 3 year old, Madeline, is taking things away. And it’s taken her several weeks of that to catch on to the fact that we really WILL follow through and take away tv/movies or, the ultimate low blow – PRINCESS DRESSES for a day.
Also, it SUCKS to follow through because of the garment-rending that happens afterward, but that’s what time-out is for right?
(Help. Am clearly scouring your comments as well).
Sorry to hear about Dog/Ashley – I’ve always enjoyed seeing her in your photos. I lost my nearly 16 year-old golden retriever recently, and it’s been a very rough several months without her. But I do take comfort in knowing that friends/coworkers understand my loss was no small thing, and am so proud that she thrived in my care for an extraordinarily long time. I was lucky to be one of the people who absolutely knew for certain that the time had come – the very moment it did, and I know that doesn’t always happen, but I wish it for you.
I’m sorry to hear about sweet Ashley. I have loved her from afar for several years now. When she tells you it’s her time to go, make sure you listen. And fill her heart with unconditional love for her journey.
I’m so sorry about Dog (her name was Ashley. yes?) especially following on the heels of JB’s uncle.
If the boys know that they can get away with ignoring you until you yell then they will. Stop telling them over and over. Warn them once, then discipline them if they disobey. When done right, time outs can be really effective for this.
They can learn the difference between indoor voice and outdoor voice, but you have to explain the rule, explain the consequences for breaking the rule and then follow through.
Sorry about Dog…it’s so hard to make those decisions. For what it’s worth, I think you made the right choice.
No advice on the banshee children. I have blocked those years from my memory.
So sorry to hear about Dog – We had to make a very similar decision last fall for our beloved Bulldog. And it totally sucked ass.
So I will qualify this by saying I only have one crazy three-year-old boy… But we live next door to another crazy three-year-old boy who is my son’s best friend. They are only one day apart in age. And when they are together they act like frenzied, hearing impaired dingos. Which leaves me and the other kid’s mom barking incessantly at them to, “Stop putting dirt on the cat!” “Stop hitting the neighbor’s car with a stick!” “We don’t hit our friends in the face with a rock!”
The only thing that seems to work is to redirect him/them. If they are spraying the cat with their squirt guns, instead of telling them to stop spraying the cat, I yell, “There’s a ghost in that bush – get ‘em!” But it’s fucking exhausting!
Even with only one three-year-old to manage, I think of Bill Cosby at least ten times a day:
“Why would you put the remote to the TV in the toilet???”
“I don’t know.”
“Riley come here, right here, here, here, here, come to this spot, here, right where I’m pointing, come HERE, are you listening to me??? COME HERE!!!”
I’m sorry about your dog, and your husband’s uncle.
I once went camping at Potholes State Park, which is near Moses Lake. Yikes. No wonder I’m not one for car camping anymore.
I have two boys, 7 [just today!] and nearly 5, and almost everything you write about your boys? Exactly the same at our house. They love to wrestle and have fun with each other and OMG they are SO loud and I know that one or both are about to get hurt and start hitting or crying (and tattling). I just want them to stop – but of course I want them to have fun, too. Gotta check out and try out some of the ideas from the other comments. Hang in there.
My parenting style is more or less low-key – with one exception:
we have rules for acceptable indoor behavior – indoor voices (no shouting/yelling/screaming) indoor activities (no ball playing and no climbing/jumping/standing on furniture). if the kids are doing some kind of outdoor behavior they get one warning before they are promptly ushered to the backyard (if they have energy to burn) or go in a time out (if they are being naughty/testing limits). this works best during the summertime. I have absolutely no tolerance for crazy/loud/obnoxious behavior in my house. Outside – anything goes.
Same holds true for visits to Grandma’s house, eating out or any special outing. During the car ride there I remind the kids what is acceptable behavior at that particular destination I also let them know the consequence for misbehaving. If they misbehave, I give one warning and if that doesn’t do the trick, I stick the kids back in the car and go directly home.
Consistency and follow-through on consequences are key.
My son’s nickname is Foghorn…….I feel your pain!!!! Sad to say, but he got louder as he got older. One nice sunny summer day, both my kids were out of control loud, and all of the windows in our house were wide open. Neighbers were out in their yards, and I mentioned to them that, “Hey, you may want to calm it down, a little, all of the neighbors can hear everything you are screaming.” Then, my teenage son, started to scream……..”MOM, put the knife down!” Gotta love being a mom.
I tend to go the Time Out route before I lose my temper rather than after. That might make for *more* Time Outs, yes, but I think it also sends the message that the Time Out comes from ignoring mommy’s calm-voiced instructions, rather than that Time Out is what happens after he’s pushed it waaaaaay too far. Otherwise, I figure he’ll *always* push it way too far, since there aren’t any consequences leading up to that, minus withering looks, which he could give a rat’s about.
For anyone looking for an alternative to constantly yelling- this is THE ULTIMATE secret weapon in my Nanny arsenal:
Silently approach the offender with arms folded. Lean forward ever so slightly, to “loom” over them a smidge. Wait until you have their attention in the form of eye contact. Then simply STARE THEM DOWN- doesn’t matter if it’s an unamused look or the full Unholy Stare of Death and Dismemberment… the goal is to keep quietly staring UNTIL THEY LOOK AWAY FIRST. Not blinking is optimal, but if you must, make it slow and deliberate blinks to emphasize your displeasure. An arched brow is the master stroke. I usually get “What??… What??… WHAT???” at first, but when they get the idea I’m not going to do more than relentlessly stare, they pipe down and eventually break eye contact.
This establishes Dominance, which is a GOOD thing. Animals do it, why not humans as well?
Here’s the hitch- don’t stop the very first time they look away. Maintain stance and staring until they glance up then look away at least once more, if not twice. Done correctly, the time between breaks in eye contact will be drastically decreased. This is to drive home the point you are NOT FOOLING AROUND. Once satisfied, turn on your heel and just walk away.
This is the polar opposite of what they expect, which shocks them silly. Some will actually slink away with hanging head- one could almost imagine a dog with tail tucked between it’s legs as they go.
This move is pure money, and abso-bloody-lutey guaranteed to get results every last time. It’s not a one-and-done, though. Use consistently, but not so often the full effect wears off… save for the times infanticide seems the only option. ;)
Hope this helps!
Sorry to hear about Dog.
About the craziness… I got nothin’. I’m more apt to lose my shit than anything else because I have a very low tolerance for that sort of commotion and always have. My kids are getting a bit better as they get older, for what it’s worth…
Oh…..I’m so sorry to hear about Dog. I’m snarffling with sympathy here for you, and over Ani’s comment above. It’s been 11 years since we had to put down our beloved 4 year old dog because of Lymph cancer. My husband and I both tear up over her still. Our 10&1/2 year old Lab/Newfoundland is starting to slow down, and we’re aware that ‘that time’ will come sooner than later now. I feel for you, and I wish your final time with Dog will be full of love and yellow muzzle snorffles.
I love MaryPoppinSertraline’s last comment, “War is, after all, hell.”
Yes, indeed. I hate myself too all beet-faced, furrowed brow, screaming like a shrew to my four boys (9,7,4,2) who also do not even pretend to hear me when I try to model good parenting and calmly tell them to stop whatever wild, feral behavior they are doing at the moment or else there will be consequences. I do not have much success at stopping it so don’t have any advice. They do seem to be having such a good time though.
I have become that mother with crazy kids that I used to judgmentally swear I would never be. My kids would be well behaved (said with a snooty tone). Yeah, right. At least I have one that screams/pleads when he is in time-out, “I’ll behave! I’ll behave! Let me out!”
No idea about how to control the boys…mine 9 and 6 still drive me batshit crazy on a daily basis. Trampoline has been the best thing ever because they will spend hours on it (of course…not valuable if it’s raining)
About Dog…I am so, so sorry. We just had to put Cody down at age 12 due to cancer, etc. Did the whole age/testing/quality of life discussion, but he was old and in pain. It was kind of hard for the boys but we do have two other dogs. Also, there is a great book by Mr. Rogers about dealing with the death of a pet. Most libraries have it.
As trite as it sounds, have you ever watched an episode of Supernanny? She’s big on the time out spot/chair/step/bench/whatever. She stresses consistency and making sure the children understand the expectations of their behavior in any given situation. The “naughty spot” doesn’t stay at home when you travel; it’s anywhere you are. While the first few days of implementing the technique (a very clear warning in an authoritative voice followed immediately by time out if the behavior is repeated) can be discouraging and seem endless, it does seem to pay off in the end. There’s no yelling, no losing your temper, no violence or threats; just clear expectations and consistent discipline. While it’s embarrassing to put your child in time out in a public place, the behavior leading to it was probably more embarrassing in the first place.
My boys are 8 and 10 and still get crazy, but it’s way better than when they were smaller. It gets better every year. Seriously, for a while, it was completely nuts. It was very bewildering because my husband and I are just not…nuts, and the kids always got scolded and punished as appropriate, STILL. Anyway, it sounds like you’re being consistent with them, and my opinion is that it takes a while for that to work and for the kids to mature. I feel like as mine have gotten older, they want to fit in with what my husband and I have going on–conversation, what we’re doing, etc. They want to feel like a part of things and so they gradually act more like us. I think it’s just a process, you know, socializing them. We’ve just made sure over the years that they know what we expect and they are increasingly willing to give us that as they see the benefit. SO, in answer to your question about day-to-day: hang on, be consistent, and remember that it’s only for a time so please, please don’t let others get you down (because oh! the LOOKS in public when tiny boys are doing their thing).
My boys are now 21 and 14, which means there weren’t a whole lot of those raucous playing sessions that kids who are closer in age seem to have, but there were some. The younger son was hellbent on getting a rise out of his older brother and was hyper to boot (something neither his bro nor I am), so he would be physically annoying/aggressive toward his brother until his brother would “wrestle” with him, etc. My best defense against this turned out to be getting him outside as soon as the behavior started (once hunger, etc., were eliminated as problem-sources). Seriously, if I hadn’t taken the kid outside (or had his brother take him outside, once he was old enough to do it safely), I probably would have thrown the child out of a window! At least outside, his noise was not bouncing off the walls of my apartment and into my skull. And once outside, he was cognizant of strangers’ reactions to his noise/ rambuction, which was waaaay more effective than mine.
Sadly, I didn’t discover this method until I’d lost my shit at him/them a few times and probably scarred him/them for life. Ah well, now they’ll have things to discuss with their (eventual) therapists.
What my daycare provider does with my kids(similar to what I do with my 5th graders, and what I now do at home) is a signal phrase that is the SAME every time (she uses “calm down dance”), which the kids respond to in a specific way, which has been modeled and practiced. She has them freeze, raise their arms, and “dance” down into sitting position, then take 5 deep breaths. After that, they are allowed to resume calm play. The noise level does of course escalate, but if it escalates too quickly they are punished (removed from play, game ended, etc.) At home this means the kids are in their rooms for a pretty lengthy time.
The keys to making it work are consistency (duh, but cannot be over-emphasized), modeling the SPECIFIC response that you desire, and an undesirable punishment. By undesirable I mean that the punishment must be noticeably worse than continuing crazy behavior. If the consequence for their action is not memorable and unpleasant (like a whole afternoon separated) then they have no reason to change their behavior. The long-term goal is to teach them your tolerance level, and that your signal means their behavior changes immediately.
Good god, don’t ever get a teacher started…
So sorry to hear about Dog. I had the same decision to make about my Belle 3 years ago and I still get choked up. It’s the right choice for her.
Well, I’m definitely going to have to go back and read every *single* comment because we are currently living in a hotel with a 4 year old, an 18 month old and two 70-pound dogs thanks to an incompetent mortgage broker who got us “approved” for a home loan only to have it fall apart on the day we were to sign papers because well, hell! We have TWO children, not one. We are on day 9 of this and the only thing I find that is working for us on the energy level is to get the kids to their new daycare at the scheduled time. Their activities there help wear them out a bit. Then, at night, we either go for a walk with the dogs or we come back here eat a quick dinner and then go to the pool.
The problem we’re having is that our 18 month old really needs to go down at her 7:00 p.m. bedtime but with the chaos of the small room we have (it’s a “family suite” with a separate alcove with no door for the other room) she has been getting to bed closer to 8:00 and so we all go to bed to keep things quiet. It sucks. We are all going a bit stir crazy right now and the poor kids, I hate telling them to “calm down, be quiet” because everything else in their life is upside down… so if we don’t tire them out, we just endure it. :)
Love you so much; your honesty, frugality, innovation, and your willingness to ask for ’suggestions’ from virtual strangers.
Re you request for feedback on kids in hotel rooms. Been there, done that; suggestion for pool w/hotel is #1 on my top ten lists of must haves for family vacations — water play seems to tire them to the point of exhaustion. Whether that is an option where you are traveling or not, whether that works or not, kids will be kids. As you said, they are often consistently inconsistent.
I always packed a small bag and tucked it in the back of the trunk for emergencies like your visit to ‘Crazytown’. In this bag, I wrapped (in tissue paper, like cheap presents) a few gems — a small deck of cards to play ‘War’ or matching suits/numbers, etc.; coloring books with colored pencils rather than crayons as it was kept in the trunk and melty crayons would only add to the craziness; a pad or two of plain paper for drawing or making paper airplanes/hats with; a small flashlight for each kid because shadow animals are really cool to make in a dark hotel room and a flashlight is a necessity when age-appropriate ghost stories are told; a puzzle with less than 100 pieces so it could be completed quickly; a small book or two for storytime (daytime naps or nighttime); bottle of bubbles for each kid as blowing bubbles is a real stress releaser; maybe a small snack like box of raisins or bag of nuts – you get the idea. Nothing too expensive, yet sometimes a bit extravagant to mix it up a bit, but overall these are things you can pick up at any of the dollar stores. Because I kept them wrapped and separate from the other fun stuff that had been packed, the kids were unaware that there were “Gifts for Good Kids” waiting for their good behavior.
Sometimes I brought out the whole bag and they were permitted to choose one each for the evening or I made the choices and brought them in from the car. This was sometimes a reward for their excellent behavior at a daytime event and was discussed prior to the event; sometimes this was the bag known as “Mom’s Last Resort” because I didn’t really believe in even a well-discussed swat on the butt as was mentioned in an earlier post. I like to keep my punishment threats very open-ended, i.e., “you’re going to be in BIG trouble if…” or “let’s settle down before you get in any more trouble.”
Kids have a tendency to read us like a book and know when we are tired, too preoccupied to give them the attention they deserve, etc. Like when the phone rings and after a few minutes (20 minutes minimum), they know our attention is on the phone call and haven’t needed a thing from us until now, but boy do they want our attention NOW…and then the acting out begins.
When my kids would ignore my requests to tone down their behavior, etc., I would set a timer I carried in my luggage. I gave them 7 minutes to carry on uninterrupted. I would calmly set the timer, place it in on the tv, and announce they could do what they were doing until the timer went off. Giving them permission actually had the opposite effect. They would become so engrossed in the timer and 7 minutes seemed like an eternity that they usually settled down between 3 and 5 minutes.
They were always rewarded for this excellent choice of action and I offer no apologies – if it was good enough for Pavlov’s dogs, then it is good enough for my three lovelies.
That being said, I remember telling my mother one day, “You know, I realize I have three active children and that is a blessing. They have brains and use them, they are creative and imaginative and active. It could be the other way around and that would be no fun for any of us.”
Bless you for being involved parents, bless you for thinking of others, bless you for realizing your children are not so damned cute that everyone else should think so too, and bless you for taking your kids with you on vacation. Many don’t.
Okay, I give, I surrender, white flag waving high! First, just read your request for help for all days in Crazytown, not just the ones spent in hotel rooms…and then, if that wasn’t enough for me to think I really missed the mark with my comments, I read the two from MaryPoppinsSertraline and that was the icing on the dog’s nose. Talk about out of the mouth’s of babes or the pupil appearing when the teacher is ready or whatever – right on advice. I would follow her suggestions beyond the beyond. In fact, her suggestion about The Ultimate Stare Down is one move I’m going to keep at the ready for adults…big kids, after all, aren’t we for the most part? Yep, she’s got it goin’ on.
PS – that part about my post being irrelevant in light of you asking for help about everyday living – of course, I would never bring out a box/bag of goodies wrapped for behav mod in my own home…
Also, forgot to offer my sympathies re Dog. Sorry if this is schmaltzy, but Dog is God spelled backwards. Corny sentiment, but the truth in my book. My big yellow lab (135 pound lap dog) is huddled at my knees as I write this due to Assbolt and Assscrew from across the street lighting off their collective arsenal of M80’s or whatever loud, obnoxious, and dangerous mini-bombs they have been lighting off since last Sunday. My prayer is that they will run out before July 4th – hee! My other prayer has to do with their (soon-to-be missing) right thumbs, but I will keep that to myself! In the mean time, I am thankful for Rescue Remedy and for my lap dog thinking I have the power to soothe. Wish I could soothe the two dunderheads into next week with one of their own missiles…whump, here comes another one! Peace to all and to all a good night!