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Jan
6
I have a question for you. Well, first I have a statement: we own guns. Like, more than one. JB is an avid shooter and let’s just say when the zombies come we are totally prepared as far as weaponry is considered.
Every gun we own is stored in a safe. One safe is of the large standup variety and it has a bank-vault type lock, the other safe involves typing a code into a keypad type thing. Kidproof.
So here’s what I’m wondering: now that Riley’s old enough to start having school friends over, is our gun ownership (and storage details) something I should be responsible for bringing up with their parents prior to any sort of playdate? In my mind I’ve thought of this subject sort of like a food allergy—in that if your visiting kid has one, I expect you to approach me ahead of time with your concerns and requirements—but I wonder if I’m off base with that.
What do you think?
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129 Responses to “Friendships and firepower”
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We too are firearm owners. My husband is a hunter. We have two locking gun cabinets that we keep in the utility room in the basement, behind a door with a keypad numeric lock. They are unloaded and the ammo is stored elsewhere. I have never thought to tell kids’ friends’ parents about it because they are no threat. I wouldn’t warn them that I have a knife block on my kitchen counter, and that’s far more dangerous. Unless you keep a loaded .38 on the coffee table, you’ve already done the responsible thing by storing them safely. Ask about the food allergies and if they know to stop playing and go potty. That’s been a way bigger deal here than anything else. :-)
I think it’s based on YOUR comfort level and what you’re willing to share. Would you want to know if the home Riley & Dylan were visiting had firearms stored there? A parent can’t approach you with questions or concerns about something they aren’t aware of…I think if you are upfront and explain what you wrote in your entry about how they are stored, most parents wouldn’t have a problem with it. But…wouldn’t you want to be able to choose that for your child instead of not knowing?
I don’t mention it, but I also don’t remember having a lot of kids over when my kids were that age. Since your guns are stored nicely, parents may respect your caution. Or they might freak out completely that you have guns in the first place, hard to say. I guess you’d have to gauge your audience.
I hadn’t even considered asking if houses my kids visit have guns..maybe because my oldest is only 2? Ack..another thing to worry about.
I think letting the parent know is the most responsible thing to do..though anyone responsible enough to do that is probably also responsible enough to have their guns satisfactorily child-proofed. Ya know?
I don’t think you’re being negligent if you don’t mention it until asked.
If you have unarmed firearms in your house in kidproof safes… I don’t see why you have to mention that. I mean, do you have to mention having KNIVES in your house? Which are MUCH MORE accessible and kids would have a MUCH easier time wielding?
Maybe it’s just me, but that would be akin to feeling like you have to tell parents of kids who come to your house that you have a porn vid in the bottom of your underwear drawer (not to compare firearms to porn, but you get my drift – not really relevant).
2-cents-ish.
Great question Linda!! I of course have no clue on the right thing to do but I am dying to read the comments and suggestions as they flow in. I guess I can say that if I was a parent of one of the friends coming to your house for a play date, and if you told me in advance about your guns and the safe and all that, i would really respect and appreciate you telling me. Not to say that you have to, but I would be like, “Dude that mom is cool to just give me a heads up about it.”
I think it’s up to parents to ASK, not proactively tell. That said, do YOU ask at other parents’ homes? I’m wondering because I grew up in a rural area where people were shocking lax in the gun safety arena and it’s kind of a miracle that no one I knew was injured or killed. Since you’re so careful, are you more aware that some people don’t have safes, or aren’t super careful about LOCKING the safe, etc.? There have been a handful of local incidents here where children have shot themselves or others with their parents’ police-issued guns (!)
We don’t have any firearms at the moment, but we will in the future. None of Lilia’s friends’ parents have mentioned their guns to us, but I know for a fact that some of them have them (in one family, the parents met in the Secret Service and the dad now works for the FBI). It never occurred to me to ask about them. I guess I just blindly trust that people are responsible. La la la!
Please let them know. Think of it this way–if something, somehow, despite all of your safety precautions happened (and how many times have kids thwarted every safeguard we’ve put up for them??!) you would feel better if the parent had known that there were guns in the house when he or she decided a playdate at your place was okay. I think full disclosure is part of responsible gun ownership.
Except to zombies, of course.
We are also firearm owners. All of our guns are locked up in one safe and all the ammo is locked up in another safe. My husband is former law enforcement and has always always had firearms. Our locks are numberic key pads and a key. There’s no way a kid could even if they wanted to break into that safe. Cripes I dont think I could.
With that being said — I don’t disclose because they are no threat. Like Penne said I dont disclose to people I have knives in the butcher block in the kitchen. I view all these things as tools — we also have machetes (sp) in the garage. We view firearms as tools, and because of that my son has never had a play gun, or gap gun or a play rifle, we are that serious about the fact that a firearm is a tool. If a parent wants to ask then of course I will tell them we have firearms and how we store them. If they don’t feel safe with their child at my house then okay.
I ALWAYS ALWAYS ask the parents before my son goes to their house if they have firearms and if so how are they stored. If they are not locked up my son doesn’t go over period. I don’t apologize for asking, and I have had a few parents look at me like I am crazy. My son knows this is a non-negotiable issue. Some of the most unsafe homes have been those who are police officers.
You are doing the right thing Linda. You are not off base.
What’s even stickier is when you are a concealed weapons permit holder. Do you tell the home that you are going into you are packing heat, do you not go in the home? Would you want someone coming to your home concealing a weapon?
Those are things that I wonder about because I know I wouldn’t want anyone coming into my home with a concealed weapon, permit holder or not permit holder.
Oooooh. Tough one. The problem is, we live in a pretty anti-gun part of the country (Seattle). So you run the risk of FREAKING parents out if you tell them. I wouldn’t say anything. Unless a parent specifically asks.
I am assuming that the gun safes are in a place where the kids won’t be anyway. Like your bedroom or the garage or something?
I would like to know about it. I most likely would not care but I would like to know. If I know a family has gun I would like to have more information about the situation than a family without guns. Such as where and how are they kept, has there been any gun safety training. My brother keeps his (many) guns in a large safe but I’m still glad he told me about them. We don’t have any guns mostly because there is no where to shoot them in the area. If we did have guns I would let the parents know. YMMV
Guns scare the $hit out of me. If someone has a gun at their house, I don’t care if it’s on total lockdown, I would want to know. And I don’t judge people for owning them, and I would REALLY appreciate someone telling me that before I had my kid at their house. I think it’s awesome of you to even think about offering up that information ahead of time. I would still let my kid play at your house. He’s two and a half. When would you like to pick him up at the airport?
Honestly, I’d prefer to know up front. I don’t own guns and never plan to, so my first reaction is always, “You have what, where?” I feel like a casual “btw, we do keep guns in the house, but they’re stored safely” would be better for my nerves than my kid coming home and telling me that somebody’s dad has a big cool gun! For real! I’d be thinking, crap, did he see it? Did his friend just tell him? Did he touch it? Or is he just making it up?
Interesting… I have never thought to ask that question. However, I also don’t ask about their kitchen knife storage, where the circular saw is kept, how accessible the matches are, if their cleaning products are on a high shelf, or if there are any sharp tools or fireworks stored in the garage. I assume that parents know how to keep their own kids safe, thus keeping my kid safe. With that said, I am also careful about which houses my kids go to. I don’t have to know the parents well, but I need to get the right kinda vibe from them.
Thanks for posting, this is interesting dialogue! My father owned guns when I was growing up, and they were also stored in locked safes. We (my brother mostly) were always taught the safest way to handle them, etc. etc. I still have no desire to shoot, and as a parent don’t want guns in my home… That being said, my husband’s family all own guns, and issues about guns will come up eventually. My son is almost three, so I haven’t had to ask about safety at other’s houses yet, but the time will come… Nice to see what other people think!
it’s hard to say. I see both sides. I guess go with your gut and if you would want to know, then you should tell… I dread this part of parenting… though my boys are on a short SHORT leash and will not be visiting anyone who I don’t know fairly well… and as for us, we don’t own any guns so it’s a non issue whether to disclose. But I suppose I would want to know, so I would ask upfront before my child came over.
My opinion is you don’t HAVE to volunteer the information but I suspect some parents might appreciate it. I think you’ll get about a 90% approval rating and 10% of parents who totally flip their lid and ban their kids from your house altogether. I grew up in a gun-owning household but it wasn’t something anyone talked about – I’m sure my mom never told my friends but it was also extremely likely they also owned guns.
The real problem here is that responsible gun owners like you are the only people asking this question. The dad that keeps the loaded handgun in his night stand because it’s his second amendment right dammit isn’t going to volunteer that info before a playdate and THAT’S when horrible tragedies happen.
Very interesting questions. The father of one of my son’s friends is a police officer so I did ask before he went over there for the first time. But that was the exception, not the rule. I always wonder if I should ask more though.
I’m sorry, but I don’t think the kitchen knife:gun analogy holds water. The difference between a gun and a kitchen knife is that the vast majority of kids know knives are dangerous and not to mess with them. A child who has never seen a gun, or has toy guns and doesn’t know how to tell the difference between a toy gun and a real one might NOT know not to touch one in someone else’s home. That said, if your guns are properly stored in a safe, and there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that a child could ever access that safe, I’d wouldn’t feel obliged to disclose that I have them. The thought of school age kids in house with properly stored guns doesn’t worry me. If I had a teenager, though, I’d be far more concerned.
I’d tell the parents up front. I’m assuming that Riley knows that Daddy has guns? If so, he’s likely to talk about them to his buddies. It’s better that a parent know ahead of time that there are guns, but they’re safely stored, instead of hearing about guns from their child after the playdate.
Fwiw, I’m frightened of guns and could tell you a horror story of a family ripped apart by an accidental shooting, but I’d be comfortable letting my child play at a house with guns in a safe.
Hoo boy. I have opinions about this. However, they are mine and mine alone, and I’m not judging anybody in their choice to have guns, have children, or have them in the same house.
I would want to know if my child is visiting a house with guns. The reason for this is so that I can keep my child from going there. Yes, maybe this is seen as extreme, helicopter parenting, but I want to have the choice to say no rather than find out later, or never, even if nothing happens.
My reasons for this are varied. Kids friends parents usually (at least in my case) aren’t people I’m that close to, and therefore, when it comes to weapons, I don’t know their habits about keeping them secure. Also, no matter how safe you believe your weapons to be, nothing will truly make them “kidproof”, only “kid-resistant.” Finally, more than 500 kids a year die accidentally because of guns, either in their homes or a friend’s home. That’s just too many.
I know it sounds overprotective. I don’t ask many questions when my kid wants a playdate with a new friend, but “Do you have any weapons other than your kitchen knives in the house” is one of them. If the answer is yes then I suggest that we have playdates at my house instead.
In conclusion, I would approach you. I hope that answers your question, and maybe helps you understand why some parents may decline playdates in your home.
I would definitely tell the parents up front. I would want to know. I would feel MUCH more comfortable with my child at your house knowing that you were honest and up front with me.
I grew up in a suburb of Seattle and my mom ALWAYS asked our friends’ parents if they had guns in the house. I don’t think any of them ever did but I am glad she asked.
I live in Texas now and absolutely, without a doubt will be asking when I have kids going over to friends houses. I know that this is something I am going to struggle with once I have kids. Pretty much everyone (including their grandparents) has guns down here.
Disclose it! That let’s the other parent make an informed decision that they are comfortable with.
Ours guns and ammo are always together. In unlocked spaces and we feel no burden to tell anyone. And like mentioned above, we also do not tell anyone about our knives or scissors.
Amanda: totally understand, would never ever try and convince any parent otherwise who feels that way.
For anyone reading that statistic and freaking out, though: more than *43,000* kids are sent to the ER each year from bathtub- and shower-related injuries.
I don’t think there’s a wrong answer here, but I think I might be freaked out if another parent told me that. It would make me wonder why they were saying something. Like, was there some kind if problem before? (Kind of like if you went to a restaurant and saw a sign that read “100% E. COLI FREE!” Why are you telling ne this? And what’s the phone number for the Health Dept.?)
But if think if you were chill about it, people would understand.
My husband and I both think we’d want to know but wouldn’t mind if they were locked up as yours were.
I agree with Amanda, and for similar reasons. I would prefer you tell us, but I don’t think you have to bring it up. We usually ask, and when the answer’s yes, we don’t let our kids go there and suggest playdates in our house or some other location instead. When we don’t ask, well, that’s our fault, not yours.
In practice, other issues like video games are more common. When our kids have already had a lot of screen time, we make it clear to both the parents and the kids not to have more. We’ve had other parents do the same, so it’s not just us.
Unfortunately, little kids — especially boys — think guns are interesting, and even if they don’t/can’t get into them, they’re going to talk a lot about it and pretend and wish they could. So its just better to remove the temptation entirely. When our kids are older (supposedly they don’t really grok cause-and-effect until age 7), I’m sure we’ll relax on this.
Of course, then other issues like internet use and phone use and drugs and alcohol and sex will become the challenges — more so, because the parents may not even know. Feeling very unready for all that! I trust our kids to make good choices, but I’m not so sure about the other kids ;-)
I have to agree with those who say a properly stored gun that is of no threat in not anything you need o bring up. Why instill a seed of concern in a mother’s mind. I know that my anxiety issues would just use that as more fodder for self torture if someone brought that up to me.
I’m glad to read all of the comments on this one and I think it’s really responsible of you to ask. I really don’t know what the protocol is for you as the gun owner (since we don’t own any).
I always ask when we go on a play date (my kids aren’t at the drop off age yet) because my kids are the type that would stumble across one (even though we’ve had countless discussions about not touching them) and accidentally (or possibly on purpose)shoot themselves or someone else. And no matter how careful another parent says they are, I will never trust my kids to play in a house where a gun is kept if I am not there to supervise. Other people’s definition of careful is sometimes nowhere near mine and I’d rather have a pissed off kid who didn’t get to play at a friend’s house then be a news story.
I just wanted to comment – we are ready for zombies too. We watched the 2nd season of Walking Dead and I told my husband he had to buy flares – I didn’t know flares distracted zombies ;).
I’m a gun owner without children. If our nephew (9) is here for a visit we tell him what rooms is NOT allowed to go into and we tell him why. His parents are fine with this as they are gun owners too (parents are also in the house with him). When my nieces are over (not a gun owner family). Everything is locked in our safe, (except my carry gun which is always on my person)my sister knows I have guns – I highly doubt she knows how many, but I do tell her they are locked away.
I’m generally anti-gun – which is to say, pro gun control laws, and wouldn’t own one myself, but respect other people’s right to own them – but do not feel you have the obligation to let people know about your safely stored guns. And if someone did tell me that, my first reaction might be more along the lines of, huh, why are you telling me this.
On the other hand, this makes me think maybe I should ask people before I send my kids over to their house. Something casual, like “do you have guns or dogs or anything else legal but potentially dangerous”. If the answer was yes, I’d probably still send my kid over, but I’d want details. Yes, but in a gun safe is okay. Yes, but put away in my bedroom is less so.
I also feel like I have an obligation to make sure my daughter and son are taught gun safety – and fire safety and pet safety and stranger safety, etc.
I’m in the northeast (originally TX) and when setting up play dates I always disclose the following: animals, allergies, family and guns (we are gun free home). I do this upfront and then almost 99% of the time the other parent shares with me. As scary as guns can be it blows me away how many people are willing to drop off their child w/out knowing who else is in the house. If I don’t get to meet all members of the family, my kids doesn’t play their.
As a parent who does NOT have guns in the house (not anti-gun, just assume I’ll shoot myself in the foot) I don’t often know how to teach my boys about guns, and that you don’t play with real guns. I’m forever worried that as my sons start play-dating, they will be in a home that has guns and I won’t know how to appropriately deal with it.
So I can tell you, I’d like to know. I’d also like to know that they are well locked up, but I’d like to know that they are in the house.
I would mention it, and how the guns are stored. I have the feeling that on some occasion, the kids will discuss it among themselves, and I would hate it if my kid came home talking about guns at so-and-so’s house and I hadn’t previously known anything about it.
I ask. My son is Riley’s age and has really only just started having play dates with families we don’t know well. So, I ask. I want to know if they have guns and how they are locked up. I also ask if they have pets, and what kind. I don’t use the answers to keep my son from going, but to take the opportunity to teach him about difference. I also periodically try to teach him about what to do if he sees a gun, or a friend wants to play with a gun, even if the friend says it isn’t loaded, etc. It’s complicated, it’s scary, and I know my parents never asked. They were absolutely parents who asked “where? with whom? when will you be back?” but guns were not asked about.
I think it’s terrific that you even opened yourself up to these answers, and it demonstrates tremendous responsibility on your part.
I would not bring it up. If someone is worried about it they should ask. The responsibility is on the parent of the child coming over. Plain and simple. That said, it amazes me how many parents have left their kids with me or tried to without ever meeting me or stepping ffffffoot in my house.
I usually ask if it’s someone I don’t know well, but I’m mostly asking how they’re stored. If we didn’t live in MA, where having guns is pointless unless you hunt, which we don’t, we’d have them, probably. (We used to go to firing ranges when we lived in FL, and it was great fun.)
My main concern IS how they are stored, what kind of guns are in the home, because in Florida and hell, even Vermont, semi-automatic weapons weren’t that hard to get.
I AM uncomfortable when someone is carrying a concealed weapon around my child, and I ask my family members to please, not wear or bring their guns to, say, family gatherings. (Which happened a lot until I discovered my brother-in-law WRESTLING WITH MY KID and I spied his pistol on his hop.)
Personally, if you feel THAT unsafe going to Thanksgiving dinner without wearing a holster, I think you’re a nutjob.
You are very considerate to even be thinking about this which tells me that you are responsible to the point of it being a non issue. We had a gun in the house when I was growing up but I didn’t know where it was and I never saw it. Later in life I learned that it was on a shelf in my dad’s closet, loaded, safety off. To my knowledge no one’s parent’s ever asked if we had a gun and my parents never asked either. I guess the point of that story is that I’d be more concerned about how other people store their weapons when your kids go to their houses. My parents seemed responsible in most respects, but it turns out that when it came to guns, they weren’t.
@Jonniker: Good Lord. I would lose my mind if I saw that.
I think the gun owners have an obligation to store thier guns and ammo properly but if that is taken care of, I don’t think they need to automatically disclose. For parents who have a strong belief that they don’t want their kid to be in a place with guns than the burden is on them to ask and on the gun owners to answer honestly.
I think if guns are store unsafely (unlocked and with ammo as mentioned in the comments above) that should be disclosed.
If it were my kids coming over, I would absolutely want to know that you had guns – and that they were locked away.
I would then probably ask you some questions to further ease my mind.
Guns scare me, I won’t lie. They scare a lot of people – so just be up front about the fact that you have them, and that they are safely locked up. You’ll ease a lot of minds that way.
This is a very interesting and well-timed topic, as we just became first time gun owners this week. I hate hate hate guns, but lost the battle with my husband. As a gun hater, I would honestly rather be in the dark about it (as long as it was properly stored). Just knowing it was there would creep me out and would (probably unnecessarily) change how I would feel about my kid going over to play. And now I get to be creeped out in my own home, for the rest of my life! Good times.
I think if you are concerned enough to even be asking this question, you are not the type of gun owner most people would be worried about.
As the mom of an almost one-year-old, this is fascinating and eye-o
As the mom of an almost one-year-old, this is fascinating and eye-opening. I think I would be appreciative that you told me, and now that I’ve read all the comments, I KNOW I will be asking about guns and animals. This also has me thinking about pools (gates, alarms, etc) and predators. Is it nutjobby to consider looking up potential playdates’ addresses on the sex offender registry just to see what’s what?
To clarify: My best friend’s brother accidentally shot himself in the face with their parents’ gun when we were eight(no, I wasn’t there, thank God, but it was still extremely close to home.) So, I may be a little more freaked out by them than most.
That being said, if you were up front about it, and told me that they were secure, I wouldn’t have an issue with my kids being at your house. If I heard my kids talking about your guns and you hadn’t told me about them…I would be less apt to have them over there.
Given the extremely safe manner of storage, I would not proactively disclose the fact that you own firearms.
If asked, I would be honest about the level of security but ask vague as possible about exactly what you own and where it is stored (i.e. “any guns we might have in the house would be kept in a vault-style safe”).
Guns are valuables, and a big target of thieves. The key is to honestly convey that any firearm is kept in as safe a manner as reasonably possible without sharing too much info.
I’ll be honest, my first reaction to reading the comparison to food allergies was “do I now have to make a list of all the things I keep away from my child, so I can ask?” I don’t think its the same thing. While I would know I needed to let a parent know in advance of any special restrictions for my kid (food allergies, flashing lights cause seizures, whatever), I wouldn’t necessarily know what to ask about in their house. Two different things. Though, after reading the varied opinions in the comments, I will be asking.
That said, I don’t think you have to give every parent a disclosure form when their kid walks in the door. If guns are fairly common where you live and/or the family knows enough about you to guess they might be around (i.e. if my child is going to a friend’s house and I know he hunts, I obviously have reason to suspect there are guns around), then I do think you can rely on them to bring up the issue if they want to discuss it. But, if neither of those apply, I think a heads up is warranted. Something along the lines of “I just wanted to make sure you knew that JB is a avid shooter and so we do have guns, but they are in safes with a keypad and will not be taken out while your child is visiting.” (Because, if JB was preparing for a trip and had guns out while my child was visiting, I would LOSE MY MIND. I don’t care what precautions were taken or how unreasonable that makes me sound.)
Where I live private ownership of handguns is strictly regulated. People do own long guns and are expected to store them properly.
My expectation in an urban / suburban setting is the default would be no guns. So no need to ask. Now need to have a general discussion with kids about guns other than “they are bad”.
I would expect if someone did have guns in the house as part of their job that they would voluntarily disclose so that we could put the fear… sorry, educate our children about them since it is a non-normal part of our lives. They have seen knives, saws, scissors and exacto knives and the dangers of these have been discussed.
With the prevalence of shooting games and tv shows where we explain that the dead guy isn’t really dead I would be very concerned that a child would confuse reality and not.
And I’ll admit that when we cross the border to shop we are well aware that people in your country have hand guns. As we drive down the highway road rage is always in the back of our minds.
Depends on where you were raised on what you think is “normal’.
Oooh, this is a good question. I’m with those of the opinion that it’s up to the parents of the children coming to your house to ask and decide.I mean, I live in VA and assume EVERYONE HAS A GUN. We don’t. But that’s an entirely different story. Good times. Anyway, it’s locked and stored and totally kid proofed. More safe than most things in the house. You’re such a good person.
I say there is no need to warn parents before hand. In fact…I think if I was bringing my kid to your house for a play date and you were like dude I have guns I’d be like, okay so they are WEIRD, and make up some excuse why my Dylan couldn’t come. not because you had guns. But because you told me you had guns. I think it’s different than say, if you had a pool – which would give the other parent the opportunity to tell you that their kid can’t swim at all regardless of how many Gold Medals they tell you they’ve won at various competitions, and so forth. Or a trampoline, because my kids a total klutz and I should come prepared to rush him to the er with a broken noggin. Guns, eh. We kinda all have them whether we talk about them or not don’t we? You’ve taken the percautions necessary for your own children, so I’d just not bring it up.
Also it’s not like your going to be like and okay kid lets go look at our GUN collection, K? I mean right? Cause that would be weird.
I grew up with an arsenal. My dad collects guns as a hobby. He has a sort of unbelievable amount. My parents are also well prepared for the zombies.
As far as I know, they never told parents about the arsenal. They kept the guns locked up and unloaded, I still have no idea where the key is. There was never a risk. They knew that, so I guess they figured there was no need to tell.
But at the same time, I’m willing to be I had friends whose parents would have been horrified to know there were guns in the house. And likely wouldn’t have sent their kids over to play with me. Which is exactly why they didn’t tell, I guess.
I don’t know what the right thing to do is. There are other dangers no matter what. Do you demand to know what narcotics the other kids’ parents are taking and whether or not your kid will be able to access them and start taking them? I think it’s a valid comparison. Both are extremely dangerous. Which are more likely to be locked up? Your guns or their pills?
SUCH an interesting conversation here, and damn, it seems like there’s no perfect way to address it. Disclose up front and unnecessarily stress someone out? Disclose because some parents really really care about this but wouldn’t think to ask? ACK.
I kind of think where I’m landing is that it’s better for me to bring up the topic — because if someone feels super negatively about it, I’d rather have the opportunity to put their mind at ease with our storage info … or choose not to have playdates here period.
But I also think that if it’s something you feel strongly about as a parent, it’s ultimately on you to ask. You definitely shouldn’t count on every gun owner bringing it up (lots of people would never think this was even remotely a Thing, you know?).
Hi Linda! We are NOT gun owners but I have friends who are. They disclosed to me up front that they have them and showed me how they are stored. I have no worries about my kids playing there. I would not necessarily think to ask because THAT seems weird to me. “Oh, a playdate sounds great. But let me ask you if you have any firearms lying about.” I think a simple, “I’m not sure how you feel about firearms but I wanted to let you know that we have them in our house and that they are very safely stored. I’d be happy to tell you more about it if that’s something you need to know about before agreeing to let your kids come over.” Or something like that.
Oh, I forgot to add that, if they know you and your husband fairly well they probably know you have firearms and then it’s not weird at all to ask how you store them. If I know that someone in the house is a hunter or in law enforcement or something I assume they have weapons and will ask how they are stored if I don’t know and am uncomfortable. But to just ask randomly if people have guns seems weird to me.
Interesting question… My husband and I are hunters, and we just moved from Montana (where no use asking, because yes, everyone has guns) to a considerably more liberal part of the country. We also have all our stuff in a safe, unloaded, etc. (We would be totally useless if someone actually broke in.) It’s never even occurred to me that I’d need to disclose this tidbit.
My son is only almost-3, so if there was a playdate, the other parent would probably be here or I’d be in the mix. The question isn’t entirely relevant for me, yet. Perhaps, when the time comes, I’ll just volunteer the fact that I’m a hunter early on to the other parent. Then gun ownership is implied, but I don’t have get all over-wrought about OMG, I have GUNS, is that OKAY with you? Gun storage is a valid question when you have a couple of young kids even partially unsupervised, but I don’t really want to go around announcing our gun ownership status to every other mother I meet!
I don’t have kids or a gun…but I just wanted to say that reading all these comments made me so damn grateful to be living in Australia – where in general people don’t have guns and therefore this conversation is mind boggling.
A lot of people here see the US as a f’ed up country and the prevalence of guns has a LOT to do with that. The NRA etc are fruit loops!
I asked my husband about this. He grew up in a rural area of Sweden & he said he had a play date once at a friend’s place whose father was a national park ranger. My husband and this guy’s kid found a bullet that must have fallen out of his pocket on the driveway. My husband’s dad found him and his brother in the garage with the bullet in a vice and hitting the end with a hammer trying to make it explode!! I don’t believe there is any “safe” way of owning or storing guns, as accidents can always happen. The right to bear arms is the scariest thing I’ve ever heard of in my whole life (and possibly the most ridiculous!) Thank jeebers for Australia and that its not something that even ever has to cross my mind.
I think the onus is on the other parent to ask. You’re not doing anything illegal.
Contrary to what Margie above thinks, I do believe there is a safe way to own and store guns and it sounds like you’re doing it.
People just get freaked out about guns, but like you said, kitchen knives are probably more dangerous and accessible. As is drain cleaner and probably a million other household objects. If someone has such a problem with guns that your ownership of them would be an issue, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that they be the ones to bring up the issue.
We don’t have guns, but my Dad has several in a big safe with a bank vault-ish type lock, I cannot get in the safe at his house if I wanted to (because although he gave me the combination years ago, I never wrote it down or tried to use it so it didn’t stick in my head)… I don’t necessarily think you need to speak up about it, but then again right now, the only playdates my kids really have usually involve the parents staying too. I will say that previous posters bring up good points about conceal and carry, I have two brother-in-laws with permits to do so… and I am always trying to look at them and see if they have their guns on them because I am TERRIFIED that one of my kids will grab it by accident, I want to assume they wouldnt wear it near them, but at least with one… I just dont know.
FASCINATING!
And scary. Totally terrified of guns, myself.
I’m liking the suggested stragety of disclose all info. Like, hey, come on over, but know that we have a dog a cat, a younger brother, my mom will be there, and we have locked guns and we don’t eat wheat and pray at noon.
This way you can disclose it all at once, open it up for the other parent to do the same, and not sound weird for only mentioning the gun bit.
Aaaaand AGREE that knives != guns. We all have culinary knives and we all know how to store them properly and we all know that we all know that. Guns are entirely different.
Lastly, sheesh, I am one sheltered native Californian. I had NO IDEA, people!
You and JB are responsible gun owners (as we are). If they are stored in gun safes (and the safes are properly locked) there really isn’t an issue in MY opinion. I would be far more worried about Riley going to someone’s house where I don’t know if they had guns and how they stored them. OR if they let their kids have “play” guns. Our kids have NEVER had play guns, except super soakers and nerf guns that cannot be mistaken for real ones by any stretch of the imagination. All of our kids also took firearm safety by the time they were 9 years old. Riley is a little young and Dylan definitely, but when the time comes, firearm safety should be part of their lives.
Our family goes to Wade’s pretty regularly to shoot. I’m not that into it, but I really want to learn to shoot better. My husband recently bought a little .22 target pistol especially for our 14 year old and me. Strangely enough, the kids is a pretty good shooter!
If someone ASKS if you have guns in your house, be honest and tell them, and tell them how they are stored. If the parent doesn’t think to ask, I don’t think you have to volunteer the information. If the parent doesn’t want their kid to play at your house because you own guns, that’s their hang-up. That would make it pretty clear to me that the parent is not smart enough to teach their kids caution and respect for firearms. Some folks think that ignorance of guns (or any other thing) is protection. In truth ignorance is DEADLY. TElling and teaching your kids the truth, is ALWAYS preferable to ignorance.
You’re doing it right!
I am on the no need to mention it out of the blue side of things. Are the bullets also locked and in a different place? That would be the last piece of the puzzle to me, but I grew up with a .22 just in a cabinet in the mudroom — we were in the country and you never knew when you’d really need to grab that thing and shoot something, sadly. You’re in the city and yours are locked… I just was aware my ass would be painted red if I thought about touching it.
Voluntary disclosure seems to be a slippery slope. Where do you stop disclosing? You tell about the guns…what else?
“We have 2 chefs knives and 4 paring knives, and a set of steak knives. Also, a couple corkscrews and a vegetable peeler. There are his and hers razors in the master bathroom. There’s ant killer in the shed, oh, and some fertilizer, too. We keep the non-prescription drugs in the kitchen, but the good stuf–er, prescription drugs are locked up in the bathroom.”
It could just go on and on, right? It’s up to the parent to ask about what is important to them. I ask about gun safety, drug safety, and pool safety.
No- you do not have to tell them about it, if the guns are not visible ! If your guns were displayed prominently or in a transparent case, yes, because kids like to “show off” things. But if they can’t access it at all or see it, then no. :) That’s my 2 cents
If they are stored safely, you’ve done your part, IMO. But then I’m hardly your typical delicate-flower helicopter parent from a sheltered suburban upbringing. I grew up around guns like this: My grandparents had a gun ROOM. Like, a bedroom whose walls were lined with gun cases with glass doors full of rifles and shotguns and handguns. They had in the neighborhood of 25 grandchildren, who grew up going to their house often, some of whom lived in their house for extended periods. Sometimes there were pistols sitting out on counters. Sometimes the door to the gun room was unlocked. Sometimes there was a dead deer hanging in the garage. Sometimes — oh glorious sometimes — there was tenderized, chicken-fried venison steak for dinner. We kids all KNEW what guns did. We knew so, so, so much better than to play with those guns. And not only because we could accidentally kill ourselves or someone else with them, but because we knew that we would get a butt-whipping we would never forget from our revered grandparents if we touched ANYTHING in their house that was off-limits to us, including and especially their guns.
Do I recommend this kind of upbringing now? No, all told I’d say we were pretty lucky to never have a single accident or even near-accident in that environment. But all the same it was a hell of a way to learn gun safety. We were not a group of kids brought up on three-counts and time-outs and positive discipline and I-language, and I know that helped in that department.
(In the modern era, our guns are stored in safes, all kept locked pretty much all the time, including any time other people’s younglings are around. And yeah, I use my share of I-language. Times change. Somewhat.)
I love Brenna’s answer. Don’t forget about the bathtub and the stairs — leading cause of accidental death in children after, ohmygoodness, cars. “We have a Touareg and a truck. But we definitely keep them locked and the keys out of reach whenever kids are over.”
I think a little responsibility lies on both parties. Guns are really scary – no matter how you spin it, they are involved in many accidental deaths – which leads most people to either freak out or hide behind bravado. Both responses can make a frank, adult discussion of guns in the home a little difficult. I think a lot of people may want to ask, and a lot of people may want to give a heads up, but everyone winds up keeping their mouth shut to avoid an awkward conversation.
If I were in your position, I would mention it. Considering the area you live in, parents may not have taught their kids anything about gun safety and may appreciate the reminder that it is time to do so. If they freak out, then they can be the hosts. No biggie.
You don’t HAVE to tell, but maybe you should. In an area that is somewhat anti-gun allowing people to know and make an informed choice is probably better than the panicked phone call when your kids says something that is misreported by another kid and now everyone things you sleep with a loaded shotgun under your pillow.
Personally, I would make the choice based on my feelings about the person, not based on number of guns owned. If guns were the tie breaker on whether or not I felt safe having my kids in someone’s care, lets face it, I probably should not have been considering it anyway.
At the end of the day people probably won’t care, and if they do, well hey, not everyone in your kid’s lives is going to be a love match. Pretty sure this wasn’t helpful, but I admire you so much for even bringing this up.
We too are gun owners, my husband had a permit to carry (that he only uses during hunting season). I have never once told a parent about the guns we have locked up in the safe in my bedroom before a playdate, and I have never had a parent ask about it. My kids are 13, 10 and 9, my oldest sons friend from elementary school came to our house many times, I was talking with his Mom one time and the subject of guns came up. Her opinion was not the same as mine, when I told her that we pretty much had a small aresenal in our home, she never batted an eye. She told me, I know that they are locked up and that while my son is at your house you are careful to not let him near your guns, its no issue for me. You and JB are responsible gun owners, and you have taught your kids respect for guns, your kids probably have no interest in making Daddys guns into toys with their friends. I would not mention it to any parent, unless I was asked.
It wouldn’t occur to me to ask someone if they have guns – recently relocated to the burbs from NYC, not many gun owners around here. But I do think I’d want to know.
We have many many guns in our house. They all have trigger locks but not all are in the gun cabinet.
I don’t see why you should mention it if your guns are safely locked up and kid proof.
My 8 yr old son has a playmate that got a bb gun and a big pocket knife for xmas. Now, we have a couple of guns (kept in locked gun backs with bag locks and trigger locks and the keys are on the other side of the house in a desk) and, um, this is Texas (lots of guns) but I had to say something to the other mom.
Her 8 yr old kept talking about his gun and she had mentioned he’d cut himself on the knife.
I just told her I needed to talk to her and I really hoped she would not take it wrong but could she please lock up the bb gun and knife when my kid comes over. I told her he is not the safest kid and i was scared of what these two 8 yr old could do with a bb gun and a knife. She totally understood and promised to lock them away. I told her i was very relieved she understood and we shoulder hugged.
Is the gun case something the kids would see? A glass-front type? Then yes, maybe. I don’t think it’s necessary if they are locked up and put somewhere that the kids wouldn’t even be. I grew up around guns but also have a strange fear of them…our neighbors are hunters and I’ve never asked them if their guns are always locked up. I should, probably. It’s a touchy subject, for sure.
How can it be the responsibility of the parent whose child is coming over TO ASK. “You seem like the type of people who would own guns. DO YOU.” Just kindof awkward? I support the right to bear arms if you care for them responsibly, keep them secured AND ARE LICENSED to own them. If I found out from my child’s friend that the family kept firearms in the home instead of finding out from the parents, I think I’d be uncomfortable – and I grew up around guns. The analogies to other dangerous items in the home are pertinent, but you don’t have to undergo background checks (well, you SHOULD have to) to keep kitchen knives, matches and household cleaners in your home. Ack, I sound preachy. Full disclosure seems like the safest bet and will put your mind at ease. That you’re even willing to entertain this type of discussion is awesome, and shows that you are a responsible parent. Not all are.
*Should have to undergo background checks to own firearms, not knives/matches/cleaners. :)
There’s been a lot of awesome discussion between how to handle this issue between parents. I think some onus also falls upon us as parents to have conversations with our own children; to talk to them about what they should do if by any chance they come across any kind of gun at a friend or relative’s house. Just this past Christmas Eve a friend of one of my friends found herself in a nightmare situation when her sons found a pellet gun they mistook for a video game controller. I hope you don’t mind my sharing. Her story is very appropriate to this conversation, and I feel worth the read. http://www.valleybreeze.com/2012/01/03/north-providence/talk-with-your-children-about-any-guns-they-might-discover
This is interesting and something I don’t know that I would have thought of. Where I grew up and still live, hunting is a major pasttime. My dad always had guns (rifles, shotguns, not handguns) and while he kept ammo elsewhere, he did not lock the guns up. He kept them on racks on the wall. However, he teaches courses on gun and hunting safety and from a very young age my siblings and I were taught to treat weapons with respect.
My husband has quite a collection kept in locked, glass front cases. I probably would not think to tell other parents about them or ask about theirs because it (perhaps naively) just doesn’t occur to me that there are still people around here who would be so careless.
As the owner of several very securely stored firearms (BIG safe, complicated combination)and the parent of a child very well trained in gun safety, I don’t bring it up. I don’t feel the need to mention any of the other legal but dangerous if used incorrectly tools in my home, so why my guns? I also have a very heavy mallet, a skilsaw, a recip saw, a couple of drills, several long, sharp screwdrivers, chisels, cleaning supplies, ant poison, and medications in the house. Oh, we have peanut butter, too. Jeez, there are a lot of ways to die in this house, and I didn’t even have to prove I’m not a criminal for any of those items except the guns.
It seems like much ado about nothing…the safe isn’t accessible, it’s deep in a dark corner of my bedroom, where children will not be, and I’m not going to be cleaning or handling the guns while I have a guest.
I guess to me it seems like there is so much danger out there, you’ll never come up with a checklist that keeps your kid totally safe. For all you know, the house your kid is playing at has a weird uncle that family members don’t talk about, but all the females avoid. Or maybe the older teen has a baggie of coke stashed in his dresser drawer. But do you ask things like that? “oh hi, do you have any sex offenders in your family? Will they be at the house?” No, you don’t.
If your kid is old enough to be playing at another kid’s house without you, I think it’s up to you to have trained your child how to think safety first and protect themselves. And whether you like guns or hate them, believe in the 2nd amendment or not, your child should be taught to never ever ever even think about touching/going near a gun without you standing by.
If I was asked by a parent, yes, I would disclose, and if it made them happy, would show them the method of storage.
Forgot to mention that the collections many around here have can be quite valuable. Some like to show them off, but others would not feel comfortable sharing information about their guns beyond, “Yes, I am a gun owner. They are locked up.” I know some guys who would absolutely not appreciate additional questions like where in the house, how many, what kind, what kind of lock. Their first thought would be that you might rob him or blab to someone who would.
I think you should disclose that up front. If for no other reason than that a friend’s parent who finds out too late/the wrong way (ie, not from you directly) could end a blossoming friendship and that would hurt your boys. I have a friend who found herself alienated from all of her kids’ friends’ parents (and the kids from their friends) because of an unannounced/unknown gun exposure.
We don’t have guns. I do ask other parents if they have guns in the house where my child will be playing (the 1st time anyway). A yes answer is not a deal-breaker, as long as the guns are properly stored. I wouldn’t expect anyone to disclose that up front though – the burden is on me because it is a concern I have.
I DO talk with my kids regularly about what to do if they see a gun at someone else’s house (and related what-if’s – what if the friend says it’s ok, or unloaded, or he/she “knows how” to handle it). I also stress that our family rules apply to us even in someone else’s home – ie, if it’s ok to play with matches or count the pills in the medicine cabinet or jump on the bed with shoes on at Tommy’s house, it is still not ok for OUR family to do that so DON’T do it at Tommy’s.
I think you should tell them. The argument “we have knives, and matches, and cleaning supplies” doesn’t seem quite the same to me because all houses have those items, and I assume when I’m sending my kid into a house that it has knives. I don’t assume that it has guns, in fact I would just assume it doesn’t. I wouldn’t freak and I wouldn’t NOT let my kid play there, but I would want to know and I would want to have a quick chat about where they’re stored, if the kids know that info, etc. I think it’s a really good, mature thing to do, and that parents will really appreciate it.
I think I would want to know in advance, and I would want to know that they were all stored in a locked, secure, kidproof environment. And then I might still suggest that we meet at the park instead, because guns kind of freak me out. (There was a Fatal Gun Accident in my hometown when I was a kid, involving a classmate of mine and his brother. Scarring stuff.)
I think if you feel it needs to be addressed; then do it. If my child was coming over to your house and you didn’t bring it up, it wouldn’t bother me if I found out some other way. You’re being responsible.
If you are OK with your children being in the house with the guns in their current situation, then I would be OK with mine being there too.
I think if guns are A Thing for you and you NEED to know, then you should be the one to ask. Otherwise, I think responsible gun ownership is a non-issue.
Really, I don’t think disclosing it up front OR asking is going to fix the problem:
- Disclosing it up front=Hi, we are completely responsible with our guns and they pose no more threat to your child than the traffic passing by out front but I realize that gun ownership is A Thing for some people so I am saying this is case you are one of those people because if you are not, then this piece of information is not going to change anything that is going to happen here today.
- Asking up front= Hi, um, I know this is totally awkward but do you keep any guns in the house? No? Okay, then! Just wondering! Yes? Um, ok…can I see where you store them? Ooooh, your safe is in the bedroom…I’m afraid I’m still going to have to see it because I don’t know what your idea of a safe is…(tin box with a broken padlock? Vault?)
I don’t know. The whole thing seems awkward and like a useless exercise in worry since, just like BUYING guns, responsible owners are not the ones to worry about.
I own firearms. They are on lockdown, just like yours.
I am also an EMT. I think many, many more kids get in trouble with stuff like HOTDOGS and BALLOONS.
I don’t think it is anyone else’s business, unless, of course you are carrying concealed.
I see many more kids hurt and dead in MVAs and hotdog underchewing than gun safety negligence. I have seen zero of those.
Wow, this question sure makes me glad I live in the middle of a large city in France – I shouldn’t think anyone in a 15 miles radius owns a gun round here (except police and army types)… In fact, I have never even SEEN (let alone TOUCHED) a real gun and am mighty glad of that fact! Obviously, hunting rifles are pretty common out in the country, even here…
For your question, I can’t really answer, simply because of what I just wrote: a parent telling me they have a gun would FREAK ME OUT, simply because no one has one, so if you do, WHY?
But – as your weapons seem to be pretty well locked away, I’m not sure it’s necessary to tell other parents. Not yet, anyway. Maybe when your boys (and their friends) are older it might be worth mentioning…
DITTO MARGIE FROM AUSTRALIA. and i live in texas. Margie, I love you.
It’s interesting to read all the perspectives. I live in a mostly rural area where hunting is practically mandatory. My husband owns an archery shop and range, so we always have bows and arrows lying around the house. We also have guns. Most of the time they are locked in a cabinet, but sometimes — especially lately when we’ve been having some serious coyote problems — they are by the back door, unloaded with safety on and ammo in a safe place away from little fingers. My teenagers have both taken hunter safety and gun safety classes and my little one has come to the gun range with us. He knows what guns do and why he should never, never touch them.
My children’s friends all know that we have guns and that we hunt, but it’s something that comes up in casual conversation in our neck of the woods. Not everyone has guns, but nearly everyone expects that some parents will have guns and those parents will take adequate precautions. I’m far more likely to warn parents about the coyotes, bears and wolves that circle our property than I am about the guns. But, also, we supervise our children and their friends. We make sure we know where they are and what they’re doing, and we expect that other parents will do the same.
So, my advice would be to play it by ear. If the other parents know you and JB and what your hobbies are, they’ll probably figure out that you have guns and if they have concerns, they’ll ask. At least, that’s what my experience has been.
I must say, I’m quite surprised by the number of people who feel that gun ownership should be disclosed. Then again, I’m from Wisconsin, and 99% of the population hunts here. If my parents had been afraid of letting me stay at a home with guns, I would have never went anywhere! I grew up in a house with lots of guns – 2 cabinets of them! They were always stored unloaded and locked. Even if I had been able to get into the gun cabinet, I would have had to have known which bullets to put in it, how to load it, and how to use it. And frankly, I never even had an interest in doing so. My parents had always taught me that guns could be dangerous and should only be handled by adults. I don’t think it’s your responsibility to inform others that you own guns. If they’re concerned, they’ll ask. I think informing them would only freak them out.
I would say something, if only to circumvent anger or confusion if the visiting child were to see the safe(s), and then go tell their parents about them. Not sure if the kids ever run past the storage spaces, etc. – but if I were a parent, and my child told me about the gun safes, I *know* I would be angry you hadn’t told me first. I have no opposition to guns in the home, particularly since you’ve taken measures to store them safely and properly. It has nothing to do with the presence of the guns, merely the conduit by which I (as a hypothetical parent) would find out about them.
What a great question! I think the area you live in would play a part in the answer. For example, we live in the midwest in the country where everyone has guns. (we do too) So it is pretty common for my children’s friends to have guns in their houses. I typically check the place out before dropping my kids off for the first time, and I would ask. I don’t think about mentioning our guns or how they are stored (locked and ammo locked seperately) to people. I just didn’t think about it.
There are too many comments for me to weed through right now, so I’m sorry if this is a repeat comment, but by telling the parent(s), you might also (indirectly) be telling the guest child in the sense that the child might overhear his parents talking about it. I assume that your own children know about the guns, but do they talk about it with their peers? Discuss it in school? Would you mind if they did? I suppose since you’ve mentioned this on the internet, it might not be an issue for you, but I personally see it as a point that is personal and private, and not something I would want to become public knowledge.
I think the porn analogy above is a good one — is it really anyone else’s business whether or not you have weapons? I say No. Not really. Houses are filled with dangerous items (like knives, matches, power drills, etc. as others have mentioned) that children could access easily. Locked guns seem like a comparatively small danger.
i’m from australia too and no, perhaps as an earlier aussie commenter said this topic is not quite as pertinent here in general as in the US. i wouldn’t go so far as to say it doesn’t require thinking about here though: particularly in farming communities where gun ownership is of course quite high. where i live in suburbia, it might not occur to me to ask if ask if another family has guns (although, this discussion certainly encourages one not to be presumptuous or complacent about that which is a very good thing) but in a rural setting damn straight i would be asking that. anyway. in relation to your actual question: i personally would want to know, no matter how safely and responsibly you store your guns. you know you can trust yourself, obviously … but i as a parent, with no fear mongering or undue distrust whatsoever, would like at least the opportunity to choose whether or not i would share that trust or not before i sent my kids over.
My husband owns quite a few guns and they are all locked away in a fireproof bank-type vault. We live in the South, where it’s commonly accepted that most everyone owns a gun. I’ve had one parent ask me about guns in our home (and she wasn’t from these parts).
From my experience, by and large, most gun owners take the storage of their fire arms very seriously. Guns are an expensive investment and as such, they are usually put away, under lock and key where no one – not even an adult – can get to them.
It’s funny but I’ve never even thought about guns in homes. I mean, I’m from Canada, but I know a few people who hunt. I guess I’ve always assumed that if you have ‘em, you know enough to lock ‘em up.
You would think I’d know better: when I was a teenager and visiting a friend, said friend decided to show off by taking me to his parents’ room and pulling out from the sock drawer both a small handgun and a giant dildo. I suspect the horror of the latter item kind of overpowered whatever reaction I had to the former. I mean, these were his nice, conservative, grey-haired parents and I was maybe 15 – the ew factor was through the roof. True story.
Wow, I live in Minnesota….and grew up in a hunting family. And a lot of the kids I knew growing up had guns in their houses, too. It never even occurred to me that people might need to “disclose” such a thing. I was nodding my head to Ashley’s comment a few above mine. And honestly, I don’t really think it’s anyone’s business if they are properly stored, unloaded, locked, etc….like another commenter said, the butcher knife on the kitchen counter is far more dangerous in that situation, or a strange uncle or whatever. Or maybe I’m still living in the ’80s, when I grew up and kids hadn’t shot each other with the same frequency they do now? Or, since crime has dropped so dramatically, but our perception of it has risen (I’m talking about gangs, etc., and not school shootings, which have obviously risen). I also don’t have kids yet, so maybe this world has really changed.
BUT–you have taken great care so that they couldn’t possibly get to them, so … so what. I would understand whichever route you took.
Now that I’m thinking on it more, I don’t even recall that our guns were locked up! They were in the basement and we weren’t allowed to touch them under any circumstances, so we didn’t. My dad also impressed upon us that the most dangerous gun was the one that was “unloaded,” so we were never allowed to be near them unless it was under his supervision. I never had any interest, but my brother got to shoot them with my dad when he got old enough. But as far as I can tell, no one thought twice (and no, I don’t live in the country. I live in the capital city.) However, maybe where you live is much more anti-gun (we have conceal and carry here, even) and it’s a bit more unique to own guns, so maybe socially/culturally you have to treat it differently. (Funny enough, of most of my hunting-family friends…the kids don’t hunt, so none of us own guns now.)
I say tell. Don’t make a big deal, just “Hey, we’re super excited that little Thelonius is coming over. Does he have any health issues I should know about? Also, in case Riley says something about it, we are gun owners, but they’re unloaded and locked up.”
That way, the parent isn’t surprised, they don’t have to feel bad about being nosy or too uptight, and you’re ethically in the clear.
I’m a pediatric ICU doctor. If guns were outlawed tomorrow, I’d be fine with that. Guns are in a different class than knives or allergies or bathtubs. If a kid gets shot, even if they don’t die the chances that they’ll be the same afterwards are pretty much zero. I have no problem with individuals who are responsible gun owners, but so many people aren’t. Other parents deserve to know up front that you’re being sensible about something with such enormous potential for heartbreak.
We are gun owners (7 total, 3 are mine). I would never even think to bring that up to a kid’s parent but then again in this part of the country you’re weird if you don’t have one.
Maybe that is a sign you should re-locate, ha!
Maybe it’s because I’m in Texas, but most parents here (and the pediatrician, daycare centers, and everyone else) ask if you have guns and how they are stored before you’d ever have to decide whether to tell them or not. I don’t think it’s something you should disclose, necessarily. Chances are people you know well enough that they are sending you their children know that you might be the outdoors/shooting types.
I think for me, if your guns are locked up, and the kids shouldn’t/wouldn’t even know they are there, I’m ok with you not mentioning it. But if there’s a possibility that your kid might tell my kid you have guns, or that my kid might see the safes and be all “what’s in there?” – “guns!” and then came home to tell me..I’d have a problem with that. And in that case I’d want to know..but I might also say it’s my responsibility to ask. Wow, I almost committed to something there. Sorry.
I’m not sure what I will do. It’s pretty easy to explain to kids about the safety issues associated with knives, slippery stairs, showers, even driving. My kids see them every day and we talk about it all the time- “Hey, you need to be really quiet just now cause mommy needs to pay extra close attention to driving.” Or whatever. But we don’t have guns. Even toys. Somehow the kids still know to make pretend shooting noises and point their fingers (yeah, especially the boy). Who is 2. My point is- thank you. It’s a lot to think about. But thank you.
This is SUCH a fascinating discussion! I’m generally pro-gun-ownership and my husband and I recently began an on-going discussion about purchasing a gun for our home. We also have a 21-month old son. It would never have occurred to me to ask another family if they have guns in their home. Or knives, or prescription drugs, or rat poison, or a pool, or…sheesh, any one of dozens of dangerous things. Someone mentioned trampolines in another comment, so I checked the statistics: the Consumer Product Safety Commission says that in 2008, approximately 100,000 people, mostly kids, were injured on trampolines. In fact, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends against home use of trampolines. And that’s just ONE thing that COULD be dangerous to my kid. Personally, I think the take-away here is that more information is better. When my son is old enough to visit other kids’ homes, I hope I will remember this discussion and make a sincere effort to get more information — meet the other kid, meet the parents, get a sense of who they are, maybe even insist on visiting the home, briefly, before leaving my kid there. And if I have any concerns, yes, I will probably ask: do you have *any weapons* in your home? if so, how are they stored? do you always supervise the kids on the trampoline/in the pool/on their bikes? I suppose this could sound a little controlling or type-A-ish, but I don’t care — if it protects my kid even a little bit more, I’m fine with whatever label anyone wants to put on that.
And Linda, as always, you rock for starting the conversation — thank you!
It’s up to the visiting child’s parents to ask. I’m not going to approach them with a laundry list of things that I might have in my house that could be deemed unsafe, ie. NyQuil, Internet, Unset V-Chip, etc. Who are these people sending their kids over to parents houses that they don’t know anyway? Is this a result of the internet generation? Are we so socially inept that we allow our children to visit homes of people that we’re too shy to get to know? Maybe we could friend them on Facebook and get to know them by reading posts on their wall . . . sheesh!
I think it’s up to the visiting parents to ask. I also think it’s up to them to teach their child what to do if they’re ever faced with the possibility of accessing a gun. (That’s one point where I do agree with Amanda and others – no such thing as “kid-proof,” only “kid-resistant.”) We have a three-year-old who already knows the two steps to follow if he ever sees a gun in the wild: 1) Don’t touch it and 2) tell a grown-up. I wouldn’t think you should “disclose” this pre-emptively anymore than you should disclose you have knives or prescription medications in the house.
Matthew: it doesn’t seem that modern/unusual to me. Your kid makes friends with another kid at school and they want to hang out — doesn’t mean you know their parents. We recently hung out with Riley’s BFF’s parents for the first time during a playdate at our house … we never had an opportunity to talk with them before. Is that really so odd?
It is so refreshing to see such a long discussion thread full of reasoned and friendly responses from people with a fascinating range of experiences and opinions. I think it really points to the great blog you have Linda. I consistently find you to be one of the most authentic voices on the web. Keep being awesome!
I think you definately tell the parents. We have three antique guns with no ammo and we have told parents and have also been asked by one parent whose child has been to your home. I have asked parents at homes where my children have played as well. It’s better to tell them so they can have dialogue with their kids. I wouldnt want to find out from my kids about the “gun cabinet” at so and so’s house if I didnt know about it beforehand.
I don’t think it is at all unusual not to know your kids’ friends’ parents. Heck, when I was a kid, I hardly knew my friends’ parents.
You seem like the kind of person who would be conscientious about keeping the safes locked appropriately, but I’d still want to talk gun and bullet safety with my kids before sending them over to play on the very off chance that one time the safe was accidentally not locked, or somehow the kids got it open. If you’re in an area with low gun ownership, where parents are unlikely to think that you would have guns, I think it would be nice to let parents of playmates know, but I don’t think you have an obligation to do so.
Wow, this is interesting. I have so much to learn before my 7-month-old starts having playdates! I live in Wisconsin, but do not come from a hunting family so I am not used to being around guns. Personally, the thing that scares me more than properly-stored hunting weapons is that now it is legal to carry a concealed weapon – AND you barely need any training to do so. I don’t know how many untrained people are carrying weapons, but they sure have made it easy to do in this state.
That said, however, it seems to me that if parents are concerned, they should ask. I definitely will be when the time comes.
(Also – I don’t think it is weird that your child would play with kids from families you don’t know. My parents didn’t know all of my friends’ parents when I was growing up.)
Oh, I also meant to say that I think it is important for parents to teach their children about gun safety, and what to do if they seen a weapon. I know this is not the same thing, but I have a severe peanut allergy, and when I was growing up I knew that peanuts were off limits. I wouldn’t go near them. I think kids can be taught the same thing about anything else that might put them in danger.
Interesting topic. I’m glad you’re bringing it up because we are gun owners as well. We just have a six month old, and we keep a loaded gun in the house, not locked up (for safety…you wont’ have time to unlock your cabinet and load a gun if someone has broken into your home.) But I guess at some point I’ll have to figure out what to do for the safety of my own child – and also what to tell his friends’ parents when he gets older. Also, I live in Seattle, maybe there are more gun owners here than we think! :)
Would *definitely* want to know ahead of time about guns in the house, just as much as much as I’d want to know if anyone in the house had a criminal record, was a drug addict, alcoholic or sexual predator. Probably a lot more common that someone in the house is one of the above than a gun owner. Alcohol and drugs would impair one’s judgment in supervising my child(ren). It’s funny how employers will do a background check on employees before hiring, but parents would never think to do this before sending their child on a play date at a friend’s house.
Which is why we have a no play date at friend’s policy, period. You just *never* know what people do in their own homes. I specifically remember going over to a friend’s house as a child (seemingly wholesome family, prominent dentist father). My parents knew the parents well, yet the father walked around his house butt-naked in front of us girls on the play date. You would never have suspected this
by knowing him.
Seriously, you just never truly know people.
Also, the bathtub accident comparison is a little misleading. Doubtful that a bathtub accident will lead to death (unless it’s a completely unsupervised drowning). An accidental gunshot to a child’s head? Probably going to be deadly.
Why not keep the guns in storage off site just to be safe?
I would want to know, and I wouldn’t think to ask. Your post is a reminder that I should. I do that it’s an obligation to ask, but, that depending on your audience you might want to initiate the subject — potentially to ask questions about how their guns are stored.
I would not want anyone to bring a gun to my house. I don’t think it is an issue — but how would I make that clear without asking everyone?
I respect your opinion, Anonymous, but it sure seems extreme to me to never let your kids go to someone else’s house. Or to run a background check on their parents. I am as protective of my kids as any mom, but I would never want to live my life feeling that much suspicion about every person they come in contact with.
Never said I would never let my kids go to a friend’s house. Just said I won’t let them go to a friend’s house without me or my husband there until they’re old enough to protect themselves. Their friends can always come over to our house and they do.
Would much rather run the risk of being labeled overprotective or too suspicious than to have to provide counseling for my child who has an unfortunate run-in with someone’s pervy dad (happened to my 6yo son’s close friend recently on a play date). It’s so much more common than you’d probably think. So are drugs and alcohol abuse in the home. I think even more so than gun ownership.
Again, I’ll run the risk of the overprotective, cynical label over naïveté any day when it involves my children.
When I was in third grade a classmate was shot and killed in front of his house because the other child thought they had a toy. In high school a peer thought he had unloaded a gun, but hadn’t cleared the chamber. He accidentally shot one of my lifelong friends, then shot himself out of despair. Both boys died.
As a babysitter I once found a gun (no idea if it was loaded because I didn’t touch it and wouldn’t have had any idea anyway) in a drawer while looking for a band aid in the master bathroom.
As a parent, I will admit I forget to ask. Thanks for sharing this. It will help me to remember that it is my job as a parent to ask the question even if it makes me/the situation uncomfortable. And I will be having another conversation with my kids tomorrow about gun safety – which to me means don’t touch any gun that might even remotely be real.
I would appreciate you telling me that your guns are safely locked up.
Hello, I’m a long time reader and I’ve always enjoyed your blog and your honesty on various topics. I just wanted to share my husband’s experience with family guns. When my husband was young, his father had guns, also locked in supposedly very child-proof safes. Well, my husband was a very smart, very obsessive, and very disciplined little kid, and he tried every single combination on that code lock until he cracked the code (as he describes it to me, “well, there were only X thousand possibilities.” He also figured out the mechanism on the secondary lock that was supposed to make it child-proof. He and his friends would then take the guns and play with them every day, and, considering the things they did, they are very lucky to be alive.
Said husband then grew up to be an anesthesiologist. The other day he was interviewing a 20 year old male patient. He asked the boy if he had had any previous surgeries and the boy proceeded to tell my husband that he had been shot in the head at a friend’s house when he was nine with a household gun.
Based on my husband’s experience as a kid, I am really not a fan of household guns, even if supposedly safely locked up. That said, your and your husband are clearly much more involved parents that my husband’s parents were and your are probably at least a few years from having kids who can crack complex codes. At my boys ages (2 and 5), I would be most worried that they would topple a safe on top of themselves.
This is something that I worry about a lot since I have boys, though…. True, there are many things to worry about as a parent (my two year old recently toppled a dresser and narrowly escaped– could have been as lethal as a gun), but guns make me very nervous as a mom of boys, knowing what my husband was like.
When I was nine, my best friend’s dad had guns. Not just guns, that man had all caps GUNS. He had dozens of handguns, rifles, assault rifles, and he had a reinforced locked walk in closet in which he kept them. I should probably clarify that he worked as a gunsmith in a state with extreeeeeeeemely lax gun laws and attitudes, not a survivalist weirdo.
His daughter, my best friend, had taken gun safety classes and been hunting and had her own guns, too. She also knew how to get into the giant gun closet.
Naturally, being nine, she showed the inside of the giant gun closet to her friends when we came over. Since I was her *best* friend, she showed *me* how to open it.
One day, she decided that she was going to teach me how to shoot a gun. We’d start with an air rifle, she said, and then move up. She set up a piece of wood in the backyard, showed me how to aim, and I pulled the trigger, at which point the pellet (or whatever the hell is in an air rifle) ricocheted off the board, zinged back at us, nicked the sliding glass door about six inches above our heads and disappeared for parts unknown.
We gave each other the traditional OH HOLY SHIT look and immediately reconsidered the wisdom of amateur gun lessons.
Looking back as an adult, I find this hilarious. Looking back as a parent, I find this terrifying.
Caroline’s example is a good one. Even supposedly childproof safes (or childproof anything elses) are not foolproof or smart kid proof, and even the smartest kids can be kind of dumb when it comes to guns.
Yes, I would want to know.
I bet my mother would have liked to know that since my friend’s dogs all liked me and her family never locked their doors, I had access to a freaking arsenal all through middle and high school, but I sure as hell wasn’t going to tell her.
Kids are like that.
Incidentally, it seems like you could totally avoid the whole conversation (pretty much ever) by just storing your guns off site. Apparently local gun clubs offer storage at reasonable rates.
I can’t really think of a compelling reason to have a gun *inside* the house on a daily basis. Having a gun won’t keep you from getting robbed while you’re out of the house, and the odds of being able to quickly reach a safely stored gun in the event of a home invasion are slim to none.
Unless you’re living in an extremely unsafe area and are perpetually packing a gun in your pocket (yeah, my friend’s gunsmith father [legally] did that, too), I honestly don’t see the advantage of storing a gun inside your house.
Akeeyu: that’s your take, and I fully respect it.
Here’s a story, just one that I read recently that’s stuck with me. Imagine if this couple had had an accessible (say, a safe next to the bed, which is a location many people choose) gun during this home invasion:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-bravest-woman-in-seattle/Content?oid=8640991
Linda, Thank you for that link.
I have no children. I have a dog. But I think I will take my firearm inside its safe and keep it closer.
One would never think such a thing could happen to them, but it does, oh, it does.
Re the link: If you wake up and a stranger already has a knife at your throat, I’m not at all convinced that a properly stored gun is going to be a tactical advantage. Anybody that unhinged isn’t likely to be gracious enough to grant you time to access your gun.
I’m also not sure how constructive it is to introduce a legitimate safety hazard into a household to attempt to protect against an event that is so incredibly unlikely.
I’ve had a shit ton of what I call “small numbers things” (events that are so statistically improbable, they approach total ridiculousness) happen to me and my family, but at the end of the day, I can’t let the fear of things rule my life.
The mantra of parents who blog is frequently “Oh God, we’re not perfect,” and yet the standard for gun safety is perfection. You can’t forget things. You can’t make assumptions. You can’t make a mistake. You just can’t.
It’s fine if you want to accept that responsibility and assume that risk for your own family, but I think that if you’re going to stake somebody else’s child’s safety on your infallibility, you have involve them in the decision to do so. It’s the most ethically defensible position.
Living here in MS, owning guns is like breathing air. Almost everyone hunts, so gun ownership is natural. My husband not only hunts, he also shoots competition rifles. He re-loads his own bullets and even owns a company that specializes in building custom rifles. Believe me when I say, We OWN guns.
That being said, I’ve never thought to tell people that. Our children are 3 and 5 and are continuosly taught the importance of gun safety. My husband does most of his gunwork at his shop, but we do have guns stored in our home: SAFELY. We keep our guns in the type of safe you described, our pistols in a different safe, and our bullets locked up elsewhere. I just assume that people know we own guns given the nature of my husband’s business. However, I have never really thought to ask others how theirs are stored.
Thanks for posting this!
My 14yo cousin-by-marriage was killed by a friend playing with his dad’s gun. Guns are a REALLY big deal for me. Now that I have kids, I would absolutely think to ask…I always do….but your arrangement is perfectly safe and I would be very comfortable leaving my kid at your house.
although, as your kids get older, I would be more nervous. What’s kidproof against a toddler may not be against a determined or nosey teenager.
As you have them safely locked – I don’t think you need to disclose, unless asked.
I have had one parent ask if we kept guns in the home in response to a birthday sleepover invite.
I personally do not, but know how to handle a gun.
One thing – the safes are young kid proof now, but as the kids get older, I would have them take gun safety classes (so the guns aren’t seen as ’secret’ desirable things), so it’s drilled home how to be safe with them (and thus will prevent them wanting to sneak into the safes).
You already have more responses than you could ever read, and my perspective is not any different than some, but I feel compelled to express it anyway.
If my kid was friends with your kid and you brought it up, I would think you were very thoughtful and would appreciate the heads up. But – I’d want to know a WHOLE LOT about exactly how you keep ‘em and where and I’d want to have a long talk with my kid about never, ever messing with them. I am very much opposed to individual gun ownership and would be very uneasy with my kid going over to someone’s house where there’s a small arsenal. I love my kid, but he’s not exactly the best decision maker in the world.
I live in Seattle and am familiar with the home invasion story you cited. Doubtful owning a gun would have done much for them. They were surprised in the middle of the night. A gun can just as easily be removed from the owner and turned against them as well. Not to mention, no matter how much someone is trying to hurt you, you have to have the intestinal fortitude to shoot, and possibly kill, another human being. The moral implications there are huge. Not sure I’ve read many stories about the successful use of guns in self defense, but I know I’ve read plenty about accidental discharges and accidental death and dismemberment.
I don’t have a gun in my house and never will. I don’t understand why people do have them at all given that the risks far outweigh the advantages. And for those who say, “but everyone has kitchen knives…” most kitchen knives will maime you, but rarely kill you unless you intend them to. Guns will kill easily without intent.
But I’d still appreciate your forthrightness just the same.