Man, I am DYING to use the phrase “ass-braying” now. Too funny.

FIGHT!! FIGHT!!! Oh I missed it. ha ha
(just kidding for those who do’t get it).

Jeez where was I all day, oh yea I don’t twit or tweet or whatever.

Hi Linda,

How bout I blatantly change the subject and offer you some cookies to sweeten your week. (thats what us fat girls do)

Heres a link to an old post but its got some good photos of the cookies. I think the boys would like the peanut butter and jelly ones.
http://valria.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/baking-in-the-new-year/

(really! I have an order and can easily make extra, then people can accuse me of bribing or drumming up traffic)

Liat didn’t read the entry and selectively read or didn’t read the comments. He or she missed Dooce/Heather’s husband’s comment expressing appreciation for Linda’s rational, thoughtful, balanced, and reasonable post.

“On that note, I bid you, your tempest, and your teapot goodbye.” – The Dude

Hahahahahahahahaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa!

I just don’t get all the “entitlement” accusations. I paid $1,300 for my first CAR. If I paid that for a washer, damn straight I’m ENTITLED as all hell to have it work. We ALL are. And I think we should ACT that way. I really do believe that it’s our own acceptance of low standards that keep them low.

When I lived in NYC, I bought an expensive vacuum from the local hardware guy on my block. It broke many MONTHS later and I called the guy and he came over THAT NIGHT. Because customer service meant something to him. I didn’t have to demand. I didn’t have to get shuffled to an India call center. I wasn’t blown off with excuses.

This is how it SHOULD be. And we should ALL WANT IT TO BE THAT GOOD.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sundry. your comments to heather were not just regular old comments. The “entitlement in the dryer” comments are what I thought were uncalled for. But then that’s why I read your blog. To GET THE WHOLE STORY. I don’t think you’re wrong in your opinion necessarily, but you never did apologize or even admit that those were snide remarks.

I make stupid snide remarks ENDLESSLY. But I also admit it.

zOMG the butthurt that some people are catching over this is screaming out for some Prep-H. Notice how Linda, Heather, and Jon aren’t exhibiting any of the negative feelings towards one another that some people are towards them on behalf of … them.

1 million followers? Making a living off your blog where you can afford stuff that most of your readers can only dream of? Yeah you have a responsibility. Period. She can run her blog anyway she likes – any of us can – but when you’re a professional blogger, you have a responsibility. To yourself, and to your audience – which is the public at large, in a sense.

Yeah, Leslie, Liat didn’t read the comments, and she isn’t a regular reader of this blog – she suggested Linda and Dooce “have a beer” and discuss it.

I think both perspectives are interesting and have provoked a thoughtful, respectful discussion about a larger issue. Namely, at what point do you voice your complaints with a company or product, and does that timeline change when you are preaching to a louder audience?

I think Heather was clearly entitled to voice her opinion, and I also think her readers, including Linda, are entitled to tell her that her call to arms needed and deserved more than a few 140 character rants.

Reasonable people can and do disagree, and in terms of having a civil disagreement, I think both women showed their strengths. There is a reason both women enjoy broad readership, and the folks who are trying to create a deeper chasm than this really is are missing the point. Spectacularly.

kristin, most consumers are vocal when they feel they’ve been wronged or robbed. That America is one of the most litigious countries on earth kind of demonstrates that.

In any case, that wasn’t the basis of the disagreement.

$1300 for a washer is a scam when you can get a perfectly acceptable one with all the doodads for less than half that amount. It’s not as if Whirlpool has a monopoly on the washer market.

Poor Maytag. It really used to be a great brand. Growing up we had one washer and one dryer – both Maytags, that lasted years and years. But that was in the day of the lonely not busy Maytag repairman.

Because I’m not as mature as Linda, I’ll go ahead and say
It – Dooce wishes she was half as talented. Team Sundry all the way.
I’m totally buying a Maytag this weekend.

Nope – I don’t buy it. My basic principals nor my voice should have to be changed or altered just because the situation has changed around me. Why should someone who has 2 readers be able to complain about a product but if I had a million readers, I’m not supposed to? You start stepping in to dangerous and gray areas. This is the pole on which the censorship flag flies. The responsibility is not with Dooce but with those that choose to listen to her and boycott a product simply based on what she says or to make an educated decision themselves. I love your blog and Dooce’s because you both can speak freely and openly (and well-written I might add!)and it’s it’s the way it should be. Let’s keep it that way.

Perfectly said Linda….perfectly said!

i completely agree with you and how you’ve handled the situation.

although i’m sorry about heather’s experience with maytag she handled the twitter side of it in absolutely the wrong way, and i’m glad that there’s someone with the balls enough to tell her that!

however, i also think that if EVERYONE, not just dooce, ends up getting better customer service in the future out of this then that’s got to be a good thing.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for calling a spade a SPADE.

My husband is an entrepreneur and is currently building Business #2. I am tired of folks thinking they have the right to stomp all over businesses because they are poor consumer.

Furthermore, as a former customer service rep myself, I can report that the vast majority of folks calling in tended to be rude on the phone and would take their frustrations out on the first one to answer the phone. ME. Folks, the person answering that customer service line is a PERSON.

The customer is not always right and I think that is the silliest mantra to have ever been passed around.

Dooce had a hissy fit. It happens, but for the rest of us we swear and stamp our feet in the kitchen. We dont call for a million people to boycott the company, we just steam and then get over it. Hissy fits happen, Im QueenHissy…and yes, they are total overreactions. Dooce overreacted and brought it public, which is wrong but hey. We all have our moments. I totally agree with you Linda, and I tweeted so yesterday. This whole thing was so overblown it is almost laughable. But you know what? I need a new washer and I think Im going to buy Maytag. Because Jesus tits. They deserve some business right about now.

I think companies are getting on the bandwagon regarding what goes on out in the twittersphere or blogesphere. I once complained about Comcast on my blog and someone from Comcast HQ contacted me and got the problem resolved after I had had several go arounds with the local Comcast office. An I only get a few hits a day on my blog so to me that was pretty impressive.

Oh my god, I can’t believe people care about this. I couldn’t even read past your second paragraph. Heather’s washer broke, Heather had a nightmarish time with Maytag’s customer service. Heather is a pseudo celebrity, Heather twittered…Who the FUCK CARES??? Do you monitor other celebrities and what they say about name brands?? Also, why would I stop buying Maytag because ONE pseudo celebrity twittered about it? If I was in the market for a washer, one blogger’s (albeit a beloved and talented blogger) opinion would not make me not buy a brand. For christ’s sake women, grow up. All of you. Blech.

Anonymous coward ‘dudes’ of the world aside, I too followed the whole “SOAP opera” with great interest though I have always felt ‘internet celebrity’ is a bit of an oxymoron. Also, can i just say that the way *your* comments are in yellow is way cool? That’s all. Carry on with rocking.

Been reading both you and Dooce for a long time, and I respect you both.

That said, I think the whole sentiment of “Dooce is a bully and she has a RESPONSIBILITY to do [insert whatever the commenter thinks Dooce should be doing here] because she has a popular blog that lots of people read” that you and a lot of other people are expressing is just…mind-boggling.

Here’s what I think: Dooce can say whatever the hell she wants, whenever the hell she wants, and if you don’t like what she says, you totally have the right to vote with your mouse-clickin’ finger and READ SOMETHING ELSE. It’s a big internet, and no one is forcing you to read Dooce.

So maybe you decide not to read Dooce. And maybe some of her advertisers will decide that they don’t want to advertise with someone who twitters mean things about their corporate brethern. Either way, it’s not up to anyone else but Dooce to decide what she does or does not have the right to say in her own online spaces. It’s up to you how you respond to what she says–and you’ve done good job of explaining your thoughts here. However, it’s not up to you to say what Dooce does and doesn’t have the RIGHT to say.

I mean, are you “Dooce has a responsibility to yadda yadda” folks seriously suggesting that Dooce doesn’t have the right to say whatever the hell she wants just because she has a lot of followers? How does that follow, exactly? You can freely express your opinion however you like until…what? 500 Readers? 3,000 readers? 10,000 readers? Where’s the line drawn?

And thirdly, Linda, are you seriously suggesting that poor little multi-billion dollar corporation Maytag is the VICTIM here? Because someone who is Internet Famous advised people not to buy a Maytag product based on her own experience of said Maytag product breaking in the first week, and then being unable to get someone from Maytag to help her get it fixed?

Is it really just the fact that she happens to have a louder megaphone than most people that you find objectionable? Or was it her “sense of entitlement” that you snarked about on Twitter? You know, I thought that “sense of entitlement” tweet was kind of incomprehensible. Did you mean the totally justified sense of entitlement that you get when you spend $1,300 on a product from a company that purports to be reliable? Because believe me, I think we all share that sense of entitlement when we spend that kind of cash on a product.

Anyway, here’s an idea: maybe Maytag should try and build products that DON’T BREAK IN ONE WEEK. And maybe they should treat all of their customers like they’re Internet Famous and get right on that shit when their products do break!

I actually think that this kind of thing should happen more, not less. If getting the occasional kick to their PR ‘nads makes Maytag and other corporate behemoths try to improve their products and customer service even a little bit, then I am seriously all for the kicking.

It sounds like Dooce plans to tell the whole story in her blog and provide some context above and beyond what she said on Twitter. To my mind, that’s a lot more than she owes anyone, including Maytag.

Way to go, Linda. You are so very right.
I think the saying should be, “With great power comes great responsibility, AND, unfortunately, great ego, too.”. Dooce is great but in so very many ways she’s not any more talented or interesting than a host of other bloggers.

The scariest part of all of this to me is that people would actually NOT buy maytag based on a “tweet” from some person they don’t know.

I hope she never gets a bad cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I agree with you.

Rock on Linda, rock on.

I find it interesting that your critics (and critics of anyone who calls out Heather on any point) insist that you’re being opportunistic. Might they be hoping for a little attention themselves as a reward for their blind loyalty?

I think your post and your view of the situation is well balanced and defensible. Admired you already for taking on a triathlon, but admire you even more now for taking on a topic on which most people are too scared (or blind) to differ.

What I find interesting after looking at all of the comments is this: People who agree with this post seem to “like” Linda more and “dislike” Dooce, for whatever their reasons. People who disagree, seem to disagree with the point of what Linda is saying. And Rumblelizard: yes, absolutely, I agree with everything you said. If I didn’t know/read Dooce or Sundry, I would agree with your comment, objectively.

I have to say the comments on this thread only seem to highlight the issues about social media & it’s use by those who are money makers (e.g. Dooce). Just look at how many people (myself) included are weighing in on this. I could tweet all day long asking people to not buy a product (or my bad experiences w/ a product) & I don’t believe for ONE second anyone would really care. I don’t have that pull, certainly not with potential advertisers.

I don’t read Dooce, but I have to admit I’m having a hard time reconciling the fact that the person who wrote this post is the same person who so eloquently called for compassion and understanding in this post:

https://www.sundrymourning.com/2009/08/18/someones-story/#comments

A few months ago on your Bodies in Motivation blog, I tried to make a similar point about a blogger’s responsibility for her words. See comments 6, 19, & 71: http://www.bodiesinmotivation.com/2009/02/navel-gazing-a-whole-new-level/

Your response regarding the purpose of a blog was:

“…for [bloggers] to have a place to share their successes, challenges, achievements, and setbacks. It is supposed to be honest, real, and written without editorial assignment or censorship.”

And yet here you are, criticizing someone else’s “honest, real” thoughts. Shame on you, hypocrite. SHAME ON YOU.

touche Insulted NOT Motivated! Bet that one hit home eh Linda?

I just love that classy and articulate Jon Armstrong. And I totally love you and Dooce–I think all told the three of you are quite an interesting, well-spoken group. This is an interesting dialogue and I’m really glad you brought it up.

Well, no. Sorry. I think there’s a pretty big difference between someone being vilified because she referred to herself as “fatskinny”, and the events I’ve already written my opinions on. If you go back and look at the context to my comment you copied and pasted, it was in response to people saying Kristin shouldn’t be allowed to use that term on the website Bodies in Motivation because it was potentially offensive.

“Offensive” language? Not a fan of censoring it for delicate ears. Thinking twice about how you portray a company when you’ve only got 140 characters but 1 million listeners? Yeah, I still think that might be a good thing.

Rumblelizard – I believe your argument that bloggers should be allowed to say whatever the hell they want on their own blog has already been knocked down by the courts who have ruled that personal bloggers who review products must say whether or not they paid for the products.

That ruling is based on the simple idea that even personal blogger have a RESPONSIBILITY to their readership.

If you see this medium as an open space for 1st Amendment rights, you are clearly living in 1997.

This whole thing is I think a fantastic microcosm of the weirdness/power/influence of social media, and I think it’s fascinating.

I saw Dooce’s tweets, and I thought they were a little over the top. But I rolled my eyes and moved on.

I saw your tweets, and I thought they were sort of harsh, but then I moved on.

Honestly, I don’t know if I’m more irritated by Dooce’s possible power-wielding or big corporations only paying attention to the consumers who have power to wield.

Either way, this is a conversation that needs to be had. The thing is, though, there IS a difference between bloggers, such as Heather and yourself, who have a tremendous following and branding power etc. and bloggers who, well, don’t. Should there be different standards of conduct? At one point would a blogger’s blog become a matter of public responsibility rather than personal space?

This is a tricky issue, especially since people with great influence are bound to use that influence, and someone is always bound to disagree with how it’s being used.

I agree with your post 100%. I am all for good customer service and getting a working appliance after you paid for it. But using your Twitter influence to demand a boycott, and to rally the troops when only 140 character story is given is just plain wrong.

Sundry, I’d love if you would ask people to chill with the ugliness. Looks to me like a lot of people are using your post as an excuse to bash Heather, I’m sure that’s not your intent.

I hate that people ACTUALLY made this out to be a catfight. People are dumb.

I have so, so much to say about this but I’m exhausted by the whole fiasco.

Personally, I’m glad I don’t have “followers” who would mindlessly run off insulting people or starting shit to support me.

I stick by my Spiderman reference though.

What if the “unusally influential person” in question wasn’t Dooce, but someone like, say, a TV personality with their own show that suddenly started calling for Maytag to be boycotted? And that message was sent, without context, to the millions of TV viewers who were loyal fans? And then Maytag, or whomever, might then find itself in a lose-lose PR situation: no way to right the situation however they tried, due to the TV personality’s message (even with the promise of more context coming, days later).

That is the point, here, people. I think a lot of people would cry foul (and have, in similar situations). Also, imagine if it were *the other way around* and a big national corporation were tweeting out-of-context messages about said popular media personality? The flip-side PR damage would be the same, and many people defending Dooce’s approach would cry foul as well.

Clearly, a professional journalist, blogger, TV personality, what have you, has an ethical responsibility to provide a *balanced* report — even if the Maytag experience was awful, you must explain the whole story if you are a *professional* media participant. And we all agree that Dooce is a professional blogger, right? While she is quirky, path-blazing, taboo-topic-tackling, etc (all very commendable and of course we ALL benefit from the roads she has paved), she is still a professional blogger by virtue of her status and how she operates her website. So why, then, would anyone argue that she can “say whatever she wants”? She has set herself and *branded* herself as a professional blogger, ergo, the same standards of professionalism that we hold our newspapers reporters, TV anchors, TV personalities up to should apply.

Bottom line: I don’t read Sundry’s post to read that Dooce *can’t* talk about how upset she is over Maytag’s product or service. Yes, of course everyone should be able to say what they want (including bad things about a company!). But, if you are a “professional”, then there are some basic media/journalistic standards under which we’ve operated our 1st Amendment society that you (any media professional) should adhere to. Otherwise, you lessen your brand and stature as a professional media figure, whether you’re operating in social media or elsewhere.

Oh please. This whole thing is so stupid.

I’m not taking sides because I couldn’t give a f*ck about who is right or wrong. It’s a BLOG for God’s sake…a place people go to think out loud. If people really want to focus energy on something productive, start at your local law makers’ next open session meeting.

Heather and Linda, kudos for being able and willing to handle putting your opinions and lives out there for everyone to read and criticize. And thanks, also, for keeping things lively :)

I hope my comment is not deleted!!

Sundry, I find it offensive that you insinuate that Heather’s fans are sheep. I know, I know…”You didnt say that!!! That’s not what you meant!!!”

It SEEMS like what you claim Heather is doing to Maytag, you are actually doing to Heather. Just because you don’t come out and say BOYCOTT DOOCE doesnt mean that wont be the reaction. Is Dooce not a business that earns revenue from advertising? Dooce of course, cannot be compared to a multi billion dollar company – her business is more fragile. Dooce maintains her business by attracting readers to her blog. Wouldnt you say you are damaging HER business by accusing her of something like this? Irresponsibility with her words?? Arent her words all she has? Isnt that why she is in business? Are washers the only thing that Maytag has? I dont think so…maybe I am wrong.

Granted, you don’t have the influence that she does, but you knew that responding to her tweet would cause this commotion…did you not? Yes, Heather is powerful, but not powerful enough to dodge the hate that you are now directing her way by basically calling her unAmerican.

Good job though, waiting to pounce on one of Heather’s tweets to piggyback on some of her influence.

And a PS. Anyone stupid enough to boycott a company over a twitter should be banned from the internet.

Dooce can say whatever she wants, whenever she wants, wherever she wants. No company is safe from product reviews on the internet. That is the beauty of it all. Maytag should be scared!! It will only make them better!

I totally get where you’re coming from and I agree completely. With great power comes great responsibility and it seems Dooce *may* have let that slip in the heat of the moment. (or so I’m getting from the discussion. Personally, I gave up on her b/c her followers are SO rabid in their support or hatred of her, I got turned off. I just don’t care that much.)

Anyway – I love your writing and follow regularly even though I don’t comment often. Thanks for being a source of reasonable debate amongst (mostly)reasonable adults.

Your balls are big and shiny and pretty.

So much for the idea of the lonely Maytag repairman… I stopped reading Dooce a long time ago, because my blog reading time is so limited, and I was sick of reading about constipation. Linda, I still read you. I think I will stick to Kenmore for my appliances.

(By the way, I am not the same Callie that posted earlier. This is my first response to this post.)

I would just like to say: meh. As has been said 1,000 times, we are all free to use our blogs to write about whatever we want, yadda yadda. I just wish people would use the same kind of energy to fight hunger and poverty and injustice that they use to discuss somebody’s broken washing machine.

Seems to me that Whirlpool/Maytag isn’t the only one here having to do damage control. You’ve done a huge amount of it with this post and look at the spike in traffic. I’d say “well-played” but that would be a lie except for the very tangible results for your exposure.

“Dude” above may not have done the most level-headed job of laying out the lapses in your argument, but the lapses are indeed there.

I found your blog several years ago, without much use of advertising. It was diaryland, for crying out loud. I was barely out of high school and now I’m 28. You were amusing, endearing, funny, and relatable. I can read your stories about your pregancies, and they are poignant, real and they even help me with my present pregnancy. You’re still all those things. Your site is not so grandiose, despite the fact that you write for numerous sites, and that is probably a good thing. I am glad you don’t link this site to your twitter. You still write for the sake of writing. Not for notoriety.
I think having so many followers, you give up that intimacy of knowing exactly who your followers are. You have less people who blindly “hate” you. I mean, all you’re doing is sharing your life, and as much as you are knowledgable about marketing and social media, I commend you on not exploiting yourself. And that’s probably the smartest way, in my opinion, to go about it in blogging. I hope that readers do not pick sides, or start “hating” people they don’t even know, but learn something from this.

What happened to the right of good old fashioned disagreeing? I happened to be on Heather’s side (for lack of better words, because were there really sides?). I loathe poor customer service and have been in her position, but you had the right to disagree…and seriously if someone is such a huge fan of a blog that they go on the attack for that person, well, I think they need to search for a few more problems to deal with in their own lives.

bravo!

LC & Elizabeth, I think you’re missing Linda’s point. In fact, you’re kind of proving it and you don’t even know it.

Linda didn’t call Heather out for giving a negative product review, she actually called her out for NOT giving the review. For screaming DO NOT BUY MAYTAG without backing it up with any facts. And Linda most certainly did NOT do that to Heather, as proven by this post to back up her words.

And if you read any of Linda’s tweets, you’d know that she most certainly wasn’t hoping for any sort of boycott of dooce. She merely pointed out to Heather that she wasn’t using social media to achieve consumer justice but exerting her influence to badmouth a company without any explanation. The two aren’t even remotely related.