May
18
May 18, 2006
I read Dooce’s recent entry with great interest, because the subject of when or if to have a second child is something that rattles around in my brain from time to time.
That’s actually just how I envision the topic, as a rattling collection of open questions that gets mentally flung around like a pinball, ricocheting among the mess of emotional response and worry and what-ifs. Every time JB and I talk about it, we end up sort of trailing off, each lost in our own thoughts on the matter.
I don’t feel any particular pressure to make a decision very soon, but I do think about it. Do I want another baby? Can I handle another child? (Note that my ability to imagine a larger family stops abruptly at two (2) kids and can progress no further without my brain literally ejecting from my skull.)
As usual, Heather has a slew of thoughtful comments and few unbelievable zingers. God will decide when it’s time for you to expand your family, wrote one person.
Gosh. Well, God also gave me the ability to roll my eyes so hard at that particular nugget of wisdom that they briefly stuck in the back of my eyesockets, making a little poit! sound when they finally disengaged. And so that is my official response to the notion that Jesus is gonna take the wheel for me on this one: poit!
Poit! Say it with me! Poit!
There is more than one do it for Leta comment, too, because god (poit!) forbid you raise an only child, friendless and alone and with no shoulder to cry on when you, the mother, keel over dead. Also, hey, is the unbelievable guilt-weight of parenthood not enough? Because here’s just a little bit more. Enjoy!
I read all the comments on this post of Julie’s, too; there are some amazing stories in there. It’s good for me to know I’m not the only one to have a hard time with this decision. I think more people stress about this than the hairball of Whether to Have Children In the First Place; at least when I was struggling with that issue I felt kind of alone in my confusion and hesitation, most people seemed to just know one way or the other rather than engaging in the fence-straddling I did.
And look at you now, so happy with Riley! – you might be thinking, and you’d be right, I don’t have a single solitary regret about having Riley, in fact I wish I could fly back through time and tell myself how great everything was going to be. But I can’t, that was the process I had to go through at the time, and although I might have guessed that the decision regarding a second child (or the timing thereof) might be an easier one, it’s just as confusing and difficult.
I have the same concerns I think a lot of people do. I worry about money – specifically, how we could swing daycare for two children. Daycare for Riley costs X, and my job pays more than X, but two payments of X and pretty soon I’m only working to cover daycare. So daycare would be out, but I don’t think I want to stay home full time and even if I did, we still have other things like savings and our mortgage and bills and so on, and as things are today, I can’t afford to stay home (yes, even if I stopped paying for cable). I worry about our stability and happiness, the fact that Riley takes up so much time and energy as is, how can we manage two? I worry about dying in some horrible accident and now JB has to care for two kids by himself (until he remarries some hottie with a 27-inch waist who doesn’t write snarky things about him in a blog).
I’ll tell you something, though. A coworker of mine brought his brand-new baby into work a while ago, and I looked at his (the baby’s) tiny red face and helpless newborn flailings and thought, hmmmm. No thank you. But I saw this same baby again recently, and he had pudged up and was in the goggling-around-comically stage, and I thought: yes. Oh, yes please.
Did you ever see the incredibly retarded Starsky and Hutch movie with Ben Stiller? Okay, it’s awful, and I’m not recommending it, but there is one really funny scene where Will Ferrell, as a guy with a dragon fetish, says “Alright guys, I’m not gonna lie to you. This is gonna get kinda weird. ….Two dragons.”
Uh, it’s a little hard to describe.
Anyway, I (dorkily) quote that sometimes when I look at Riley, “…Two suctopuses.” Two of them! My god. Things would definitely get weird. It would be like diving down the rabbit-hole headfirst and never seeing the light of day again, wouldn’t it?
And I think what an amazing amount of joy and love, what depth and color he has brought to our lives. How I have learned that I have so much to give, how proud I have become of what I can do, how I believe in myself now more than I ever have. How for all the pain-in-the-assedness of this baby wrangling business, there is real no-shit magic in it, exquisite moments I want to experience again someday.
(Sorry! Am cheesy! Poit!)
Here, then, is my mantra for now: Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Yes? Maybe.
Not today, though. Dude. I just got out all my size 10s again.
Sometimes the idea of starting a family with my husband is intoxicating, especially after I come here and see pictures of our Riley. Other times, like when I try to have a lucid conversation with my sister and can’t because every other sentence is punctuated with her remonstrances to her two children (“Don’t stick chalk up your sister’s nose”, etc), I think that maybe just ONE baby would be sufficient. Sometimes I think about pregnancy and being responsible for a tiny human when I’m very talented at walking into walls and droppng fragile items, and then I’m frightened out of my wits and adopting a 17-year old sounds great. All of that to say that the best decision for YOU will come from YOU and JB, and it will come with time. Enjoy your size 10s for as long as you like first.
My husband and I have been having this discussion for some time now. My daughter turned three in January, and I have to say I didn’t really have the urge to have another baby until she was about three. I’m only now hitting the point where I can see us handling it financially as well, i.e. she’s 3+ now, add 9+ months of pregnancy, one year’s maternity leave, and then she’s getting close to school age anyway so two kids in daycare isn’t such an issue. I say, what’s the hurry? There’s no law that says kids have to be spaced within two years of each other. Especially for those of us who like their sleep…
I meant to say “your Riley”, not “our Riley”. Heh.
Heh. I thought it was sweet. : )
My favorite comment on dooce’s blog is by the person who said “Plan? Who plans a baby? Birth control doesn’t work. Condoms don’t work. Pregnancy just happens.”
I found myself thinking, “Lady, you are way too dumb to be a parent if you can’t figure out how to operate a condom and a spermicidal foam dispenser.”
Wow, y’all are all having this thought, aren’t you. I thought it was just MetroDad and Dooce– I didn’t realize it was the topic du jour all over the Internet today. I’m done, but I remember, briefly, having these thoughts. Turned out it wasn’t really my decision after all!
“Pregnancy just happens”? Um, yeah. Not so much. Not for everyone.
I recently got super serious about having a second child. As in, “started takin’ my babymakin’ meds”. I’m taking Clomid and I’m really REALLY hoping to have ONE more child. Just one.
Enjoy your size 10s. :) We’ll just have to be satisfied with the yummy pictures of Riley until you decide to procreate again.
It’s the kind of thing that no one can really give you any advice on–because what’s really fantastic for some people might not work at all for others. And no matter if or when you decide to do it, there are always going to be people who say “oh, you have to have them close together, that way they’ll be friends” or “what’s the hurry? I loved having my kids 4 years apart?” or “at least with one, I know our finances aren’t stretched so thin”. Thing is, there are pros and cons to whatever you decide. Also, I would bet money on the fact that whatever happens, you’ll be convinced it was absolutely the right choice. (Unless, of course, there were fertility problems, which I don’t think you have.)
So, with that helpful advice, I’m off!
Oh, also? Having two kids 16 months apart is the ONLY WAY TO DO IT.
But how could you know this then …..”And look at you now, so happy with Riley! – you might be thinking, and you’d be right, I don’t have a single solitary regret about having Riley, in fact I wish I could fly back through time and tell myself how great everything was going to be.” You couldn’t have known. I didn’t, and I wish the same thing. Don’t feel any pressure…What’s wrong with one. Where and when did the social stigma come in that said one is wrong…I obviously need to watch more TV to keep up. They cancelled Happy Days, right?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having one child. I was an only child, and I never felt bad about not having a sibling. I absolutely don’t buy into the notion that choosing to have one kid somehow does him or her a disservice. “Do it for Riley” gets a big old fat POIT from my camp.
I bet you five dollars that eighteen months from now you are pregnant. You find the time, energy, money, etc once you have too. Besides, how can one child take care of you when you are old? I figure my kids owe me three years of changing my shitty diapers. ;-)
This is an easy decision for J and I – we were already referring to “next time” when we were in the delivery room. Yes, even after the harrowing emergency c-section which capped off hours of painful labour and fear for Grommet’s health. However, since it took infertility drugs to have her, we can only hope they’ll be effective a second time, without being supercharged and giving us multiples. Twins wouldn’t be bad, just more complicated. Either way, it’s kind of nice to know what we want and two pregnancies is what we hope for in total for building our family unit.
I am exactly in the straddling the fence position regarding a first child, and it is such an awful place to be (for me). At the moment, financially, having a child is not possible (I know you manage if you have to, but I wouldn’t plan to have a child now), and my partner is extremely ambivalent to the idea. There is a side to me that seriously doubts the wisdom of having a child – I don’t have the patience, I’m too selfish, I really don’t want to spend my evenings helping with homework, making endless packed lunches, arguing about clothes etc. Then there is my other side – an almost physical longing and blind certainty that it would all be alright, I’d change, I’d be so happy. This side of me even looks at teenagers with misty eyes. The part that I find so awful is that I will never know which is the right decision unless I have children. I might regret it, I might love it, but if I don’t try – I feel like the future is bleak, what would we do with ourselves? Despite the knowledge that we’d be able to save up and travel, lounge around at weekends, afford to buy a decent house with a garden. I’m 29, I know I still have a certain amount of time to decide, I just wish I would stop worrying about it!
I had always told myself – that I would only have one. I am an only child and I was fine alone, though I do wish I had a sister sometimes. I wanted to raise a child, but always thought more than one would just be too much. Then….I got pregnant with TWINS – God was like – surprise! One is absolutely out of the question!! Now – I couldn’t imagine just one. The boys are wonderful and yes, oh so much work but double the morning smiles before I go off to work or whenever? Makes me teary just thinking about it. We even talk about maybe – when the boys are 4/5 or so trying for a girl. There are a lot of if’s that go along with that. IF we believe it will be safe, I will be 37 or so by then. If we can afford for me to stay home or at least go p/t. I do not like working f/t and missing so much time with them now but there is no choice as they were not planned. If, if, if. But I think we will try, maybe. It’s such a truly individual choice and sooo many factors effect it. But Riley is just as cute as can be – how can you not want one more of those? or someone like him anyway – perhaps in the girly version?
I have an only child and personally, I LOVE the dynamics off a three person family. Instead of the overwhelming familial unit, we are just three. Vacations are awesome, personal time for mom/dad, dad/daughter, daughter/mom is easy to find. Not to mention the whole college savings things?!?? Yeah, soooo much easier. Our little girl is 8 now and I wouldn’t dream of having another. I can just borrow nephews to squelch any wayward hormonal uprisings.
Aw man, I totally loved the Starsky & Hutch movie.
Sundry, I just love your site. By far the favorite blog I read.
Strangely enough, I am newly married and childless–but I love peeking into your life and seeing what’s possibly ahead for me.
Why worry about another now? I guess I’m kind of with the “when it’s right, you’ll know” people. Until then, enjoy the gorgeous begging-to-be-nibbled-ness that is Riley and relax in knowing that, right now, life is just right.
: )
My sister and I are almost six years apart so don’t feel like you have to pop one out now or never. We got to have totally separate, distinct childhoods (as in, no competing at similar life stages and no huge photo album disparity) and our parents got a break between college payments, woot!
We have one 11 month old and I am pregnant again, due in December. They’ll be 18 months apart. I read Dooce’s entry with great interest too, but I’ll tell you – if I thought about it enough, I would never have another baby. If anyone had told me what pregnancy and labor and breastfeeding in the beginning and especially those first horrible 16 weeks (followed by pretty bad 10 more weeks) were like, I wouldn’t have had one! I do feel like God has helped me decide here, because if He didn’t, then I don’t know who did! It definitely wasn’t me or my husband, we are seriously barely recovered from this first one. Anyways, my point is, I think it’s rude for someone to tell Heather that God will decide for her what she should do, especially considering what Heather has said about her conflicted feelings on God and religion, but I think it’s kind of rude to tell someone that they’re wrong, just because it’s not something with which you agree.
I watch the Starsky and Hutch movie for the dance-off. But the dragon fetish is good, too.
Joanne, I’m not sure if you’re saying that’s what I’m doing – telling someone they’re wrong – but hopefully what is coming across that I don’t appreciate the God-makes-the-decision-for-you declaration when it’s being stated as an undeniable truth. I mean, it isn’t true for me, obviously (what with the snark and poit and all) so it’s just as annoying as if I were to tell a Christian that God was going to have *nothing* to do with their baby-making plans so quit all that praying.
I’m definitely not saying the belief itself is wrong or something that isn’t valid or meaningful for other people.
Wow, it’s like you looked right into my mind today. My son just turned three and my husband and I have been struggling with the have-a-second-or-not decision. It is much harder than our decision to have a child in the first place. Shouldn’t it get easier? I am an only child and never wanted any siblings, so it’s hard for me to buy the usual reasoning I get from people on this issue including things like: having a sibling will make him learn to share or he will be so lonely and sad without a sibling or he wil be a spoiled brat if he’s an only child. None of those things happen because a kid is an only child. It would be great if I could look into my future and see I had two, they got along GREAT, it wasn’t the final apple that tipped the very delicately balanced cart of work, husband, family, but I can’t, so instead I vacillate every other day between feeling like I really want another child because I love my son so much, if I could have twice as much of that feeling it would be fabulous, and feeling like life is pretty darned good now, why mess with it. Sorry, I totally spewed here. You hit the spoty though.
I love your blog, and my husband and I have been talking about this more now that our daughter’s 15 months. She was a surprise (I switched to low-dose…apparently a little too low) and we’re both in grad school and living on student loans, Now is not the ideal time, but that’s life. We talked about a big family when we were dating (3+, maybe 4) and that still sounds good to me. I’m laid-back verging on neglectful as a stay-at-home mom, but I still really enjoy it, and I think I’d enjoy trying to wrangle the chaos of a large family. My sister and I were 18 months apart and always had a weird competitive dynamic. I’ve thought before that maybe another sibling would have broken that up. In short what I’m saying is college savings or no college savings, I’d like to field a basketball team.
Linda, no, I didn’t think that’s what you were saying. I was mostly referring to comments, here, but mostly on DOOCE. Thanks.
Wow. “Yeah, me too” to pretty much what you and your previous commenters have said. Our daughter is 18 months old and I think I am ready to start working on #2 but my husband is not quite so sure. We talked about kids theoretically (again with me “pro” and him on the fence) but our daughter was an “oops” three weeks after we got married. We were 31 and had been together for nearly 10 years so we were fortunate enough to have a home and good jobs and a stable relationship but the true decision was sort of made for us the first time.
We had a pregnancy “scare” even though I’m on the mini-pill just a couple of weeks ago and I was surprised by how ambivalent I felt. I was excited and terrified – just like the first time. I wondered how we would make it work physically (Where would the baby sleep? Our 18 month old is still in the crib.), emotionally and financially – just like the first time. Only now, the stakes are higher since its not just the two of us whose lives would be turned upside down . . .
I worry about money a lot too. We are in the extremely fortunate postion of both having full time jobs and still not paying for daycare since our mothers both help take care of our daughter but neither is young and I don’t think we could ask them to care for both a baby and a 2 year old. I’m not exactly a Spring Chicken either. If I got pregnant today, I’d be 34 when the baby was born so I don’t feel like time is on my side and I must make a decision pretty soon.
All these fears and concerns balanced with what you so eloquently call the “real no-shit magic” and joy my daughter brings me every day make it so hard to know what to do. In the end, I have to go back to something that I read once that always sticks with me and that I truly believe “you will never regret the child(ren) you have, only those you don’t have”.
Or maybe that’s just some bullshit but it rings true to me since I could never REALLY know how much my child would bring to my life before she was already here.
This is so hard in so many ways. I still get all hung up in “This one is so great! Gimme another one!” versus “This one is so great! Let’s give this one all of the love and attention that we can!” That being said, we’ve decided we want another baby – I’m sure that if/when we have another one, I will love that baby just as much as I love the first, but at this point, pre-baby, I sure don’t feel the same absolute pang of yearning that I felt about having the first one. I am so much more ambivalent than I was back then.
It is indeed a very personal decision and you have to go with your own gut. I had my first two so close together (16 months) that I didn’t really have time to realize what I was doing! I will say I loved it. They are seven and almost six years old now and are very close, enjoy doing things together and have many of the same friends. For us we wanted a big family and I am now expecting my fifth. We had originally planned for six but I am now pretty sure this will be the last one- each pregnancy has been harder on me and I think I am at my limit now; plus the advantages of having them close together will start diminishing now as my seven year old is getting into “big kid” things. They have each gotten just a little farther apart by a few months, (my youngest will be 27 months when the new one is born) but the 16 month age difference was my favorite. I stayed home for a year after my second was born, went back to work and almost immediately found out the third was on the way. I came back home after she was born and have been here since. We found the “frugal” lifestyle wasn’t for us, but my husband is ambitious and was willing to take on the challenge of his own business. It has done very well for us but it has its own disadvantages.
Sometimes I do think what life would be like with just one or two children. My good friend who I met when my oldest was a baby stopped at two children, and they have a lot more freedom now. They are able to do a lot of things that are logistically difficult with five children. I know it would be “simpler” with less kids, but for us the chaos comes with a lot of joy!
There are as many “right answers”as there are families!
We’re not struggling with that yet, but we do want another child. I just can’t imagine going through it all again.. the pregnancy, the labor (!!!), nursing, bleeding, etc. I don’t want an only child, though. And I just can’t fathom another daycare payment. We can’t afford for us both to not work. Like Dooce, we pay for our own healthcare too, so the financial responsibility of all GYN appts and labor & delivery falls on us, until we meet our deductable…. Sometimes being a grown-up sucks. And yet, I too fall prey to the call of the child, to the new helpless baby attraction. Guess that’s why our breed has been around for hundreds of thousands of years… those cavewomen couldn’t resist either! It’s a good thing, too!
I waited until my oldest was walking and talking before I began to plan a second child. I stopped at two for financial reasons and for my sanity; my best friend told me that two are great, it’s the third one that sends you over the edge. All I can say is you’ll know when the time is right, if it comes at all.
It is so interesting (and funny) for me to read your blog. I just found it today, linked from another site. I LOVE my children. I love reading about YOUR children. I love reading ALL of the mommy blogs. No one can tell you when, or if, you should have another child. Yes, it is hard. Yes, it is challenging. Yes, you will have difficult times. I have four children. I birthed them over a 13 year period. Their ages are 20, 17 (almost 18), 12 and 7. I had them with two different husbands who are two different races. Talk about challenges! But… I wouldn’t trade any part of raising them. The teenagers are hard. The little ones are hard. But the joy and laughter and memories they bring are priceless. I read Dooce every day and very much identify with her struggle (and yours). The only advice I can give you is to enjoy them at every age, in every stage and if you and your husband want more, have more. I also homeschool my kids, so I’m with them ALL THE TIME. Yes, we’re on one income and that isn’t easy. Ever. The one thing my sis-in-law told me (years ago) is that you will never really be able to afford more children. You just have them and then figure it out. I have certainly found that to be true. You don’t think you have the love, the time, the money or the patience for the next one, but it is always there. Good luck with your decision.
P.S. I am finally in my size 10’s again. And I love it. Absolutely. But… my baby is 7.
Well, now I’m sure Victoria hasn’t ever read MY ramblings. :D And God didn’t decide for me; Satan did. I’m SURE of it now.
Hey warcry… she lied. It’s the fourth that sends you over the edge. The third you only think so. :D
I’m not pretending this will solve all your financial questions or anything, but the perspective I tend to take about childcare and working is a the Long View. While for the years of childcare overlap it may feel (and be) true that you’re working to pay for daycare, those years of continuous work experience are materially valuable for your long term career advancement and earning potential. Just ask women who haven’t be able to get their foot back in the door after what they thought was a temporary break. In addition to thinking about the “savings” of being a one income family with kids age 2 and 4 and no childcare costs, think about the sacrifices of being a one income or one plus one reduced income family with kids age 10 and 13 or (shudder) two in college at 19 and 21.
That’s my two cents on the subject (har har).
you know, i always said if i didn’t have another child by 25, i wouldn’t have anymore. i’m 32 now..and i don’t regret never having more. if you do decide two suctopuses is the right thing to do, then that’s fabulous, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong about having just one. for me, anyway, one is definately enough.
We recently had our second child, 2 years and 3 months after the first. My wife, like you, works part time and our firstborn has been in a daycare. We’ve hired a nanny, which it turns out is cheaper than two kids in an expensive Kirkland daycare.
The second child has not been as hard as the first. Part of that is due to differences in their personalities, but mostly it’s our own experience. Having been through it all once before, there are fewer unknowns, fewer doubts and fears, more patience, and ultimately more confidence that you can handle it. You can already change diapers in your sleep and so many other essential skills. You’ve already got a boatload of baby gear. You already know their crying sounds like the end of the world but isn’t.
It’s not easy, and it is more work than just one child alone, but for us it’s still been worth it. We love our kids so much, and so far they love each other. Even though she’s barely rolling over yet, they’re already very cute together. I’d like to have another one or two (and not just for the parental leave :-) ).
I found you through Kristin (at Debaucherous and Dishevelled) and I lurk here quite a bit because you make me laugh. I like to laugh.
Anyway, my second son is 9 months old. And when I say “second” I mean “final”, by the way. It’s definitely been an adjustment. He’s a honey, and both my kids are thoroughly amazing, so if I was the advice-giving type I’d totally say have one more. Of course my kids are 5 years apart because it took me a long long long time to decide I would do it all again. :)
I was compelled to write because I’ve been pretty frazzled trying to find new balance with both kids and working full time, and one of my great “blogging friends” wrote the funniest thing in my comments; he said, “One kid isn’t enough, and two is too many.” It’s my new favorite quote, and I would laugh every time I thought about it, if it weren’t soooooo true.
If it helps, at all, I can tell you that I was on the fence with both my kids. I struggled really quite a bit, and we got pregnant both times pretty much the minute we decided to…uh…”pull the goalie”, but that turned out to be a good thing because I’m pretty sure I would have have stripped a gear going back and forth on the decision-making.
And, because I am a heathen, I have nobody to blame (or thank) but myself. It depends on the day, or *hour* of the day, actually, but mostly I’m deliriously happy with the way things turned out. But if you want to know a secret? I think I would have been deliriously happy with anything. I’m simple.
Good luck, you’ll do the right thing at the right time, or else you won’t, but it will all work itself out in the end, regardless.
I think about this a lot – and I play the whole “my poor child needs a sibling” game way too often. But seriously, the baby stuff was not for me, nor was the popping a large baby out of my crotch (but really, who is that for, anyway?). However, I wish my bro was closer in age (my excuse for us not really being close…) and I see folks with cool sibs and wish the same from my daughter.
If I can do it, I probably will. Miscarriages are a bitch and so who knows it will actually happen, but if it does, hopefully I’ll be able to survive babydom almost as well as I did the first time. And since it didn’t go that well, I guess my expectations can be pretty low.
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