This complicated life

October 17, 2006

Hey, let’s talk about abortion and religion!

(Wait, where are you going?)

Two things:

1. JB and I went to the Bodies exhibit a couple weeks ago. I highly recommend checking it out if it’s in your city, the specimens are truly amazing and give you a unique chance to appreciate the fascinating machinery under your skin.

One section of the exhibit is devoted to fetal development, and it includes many actual fetus specimens floating, ghostlike, in their containers. You can choose to bypass this room; I imagine it would upsetting to some people. There are heartbreaking examples of birth defects which are particularly difficult to view.

Most intriguing to me was the area depicting gestation week by week, from chorionic sac to embryo to 32 weeks in development. In the first couple weeks you see what you might expect: a tiny blob of cells. By five weeks it takes on the form of a living creature, preliminary arms and legs are there.

The eighth week specimen was so perfectly formed it took my breath away. Fingers. Toes. Eyes. I can’t explain it, except to say it’s one thing to see photos of this stage, and it’s something else entirely to see the actual body from all angles.

I have felt differently about abortion since Riley, which is not to say I have changed my pro-choice stance entirely, but rather that the subject feels much more emotionally charged. It is now difficult for me to be objective or clinical about a process that prevents a viable baby from being born.

I had an abortion when I was a teenager, which I hope is not such an intimate confession it will make you feel uncomfortable – it’s just the truth. I was maybe eighteen and was in no position to feel anything but an overwhelming desire to end the pregnancy. I have no lingering sorrows over that choice. At the time I was incredibly relieved to have the option available to me.

When I think about abortion now, my mind can’t quite escape the image of that eight-week-old fetus. Fingers. Toes. I don’t know how to view it any other way than ending a life.

For my own situation, I didn’t want to have a child. I had nothing to offer a baby: no stability, no money, nothing. I believe my life took a better course for not being a teenage mother, although who can say for sure. I believe Riley would not exist today had I made a different choice back then.

But was it morally wrong? I feel less certain that I know the answer to that question.

2. I have also felt differently about religion since Riley, which is not to say I have changed my personal agnostic, uh, nonbelief system. I am more empathetic to the desire to believe, I guess. I understand that there are things in the world so glorious and good there is no better word for them than miraculous. I understand, in some small scared way, the unspeakable enormity of a child’s death, and the need to believe that this world is not our last.

I’ve been reading Anne Lamott’s Plan B: Further Thoughts on Faith (which I picked up because she is a great and funny author; she also wrote Bird by Bird, one of the best books on writing I have ever had the pleasure of reading), and while I do not share Lamott’s spirituality, I find her point of view inspiring. She talks about Jesus and God and Mary and so on, but her faith is completely without judgement. She uses her faith as a supporting pair of hands, the motivation to get out of bed on a day that offers no comfort, and a reminder to love her fellow man without exception.

Her perspective is a beautiful thing to read, in my opinion. It is quite different from the ‘family values’ bullshit that is really just hatred and intolerance with a halo drawn on top.

She fundamentally lives her life by a set of what I choose to believe are mythological constructs. But her flavor of Christianity offers a moral compass I can respect and even envy.

Lamott herself believes in a woman’s right to choose, by the way. She wrote, “It is a moral necessity that we not be forced to bring children into the world for whom we cannot be responsible and adoring and present. We must not inflict life on children who will be resented; we must not inflict unwanted children on society.”

I want to support this right. I really, really do. I have many reasons for believing that women should have legal access to this procedure.

And yet. Fingers. Toes. Visceral reminders of the machinery being built, with all its potential. It’s complicated. It is more complicated for me than bumper stickerisms or yelling lunatics with signs or choices made in the name of God.

Comments

118 Responses to “This complicated life”

Swistle on October 17th, 2006 1:09 pm

I feel just the way you do. I certainly want the right–and accessible means–to an abortion if I choose to have one, and I want other people to have that, too. But ever since my first child was born, every conception fast-forwards in my mind to the completed baby.

As a fellow agnostic, I’ll say that if anything happened to one of my kids, I might have to try to become religious as a sanity-saving measure. It must be so comforting to believe, and it’s hard to feel that belief absent and unreachable.

As an aside, I read an interesting study recently that said that agnostics are, overall, more moral and ethical in actual behavior, and less likely to get divorced, than are born-again Christians. Hey, controversy!
Paige on October 17th, 2006 1:12 pm

Thank you for this. It’s the most honest thing I have read in awhile. I also believe in the right to choose, and put my money and vote behind my belief, but since having Olivia, I can hardly wrap my mind around having to make such a choice now, feeling as I feel about her. That being said, I am still filled with abject dread at the thought of someone taking away the right. If things were different, I guess we would have the right, but have to use it less often? We would have better education, more support, higher value for children and parenting, etc….Sorry, I’m starting to ramble now….guess I should save that for my own blog. Thanks again.
LLL on October 17th, 2006 1:18 pm

I must say, I feel exactly the same way. I have always been pro-choice, and still am. But after having a baby I became very much in favor of (1) promoting birth control - like Norplant-which lasts 5 years and (2) limiting when an abortion may be performed (unless it presents a danger to the mother). I know that may sound bad and right-wing, but after sometime, even if not viable, the fetus is a human baby.

I felt my baby move at 20 weeks — she was a person. No, not viable, but a little person nonetheless. I have seen the pictures of when they start to become humans and I think we as a society need to try to figure out a way to educate and prevent so that those tiny humans need not be aborted (I am not crazy, I know this will never be done entirely).

Its an ungly balance — abortion agains the evil of unwanted children. I know the latter is worse because they must live (and sometimes) die in awful conditions. It all seems so heartwrenching.

I also am agnostic. But not without spirituality. Having a baby heightened that characteristic. It just changes you.
samantha on October 17th, 2006 1:38 pm

I agree with LLL. This is such a tough subject, and sooo polarizing.

I was a born again Christian. Before we conceived Zoe, we were gearing up to become missionaries with the Salvation Army. Once we discovered that we were going to have a baby, everything changed. I could not see taking a baby along to a third world country to preach the Gospel. (Nothing wrong with people that do, it just wasn’t the right decision for US).

Recently, I re-evaluated my spiritual life. I want Zoe to have a broad, open view of religion. I never want her to feel forced into any certain box, if that is not what she wants. We are trying to expose her to all kinds of faith now…
samantha on October 17th, 2006 1:39 pm

I agree with LLL.

This is such a tough subject, and sooo polarizing.

I was a born again Christian. Before we conceived Zoe, we were gearing up to become missionaries with the Salvation Army. Once we discovered that we were going to have a baby, everything changed. I could not see taking a baby along to a third world country to preach the Gospel. (Nothing wrong with people that do, it just wasn’t the right decision for US).

Recently, I re-evaluated my spiritual life. I want Zoe to have a broad, open view of religion. I never want her to feel forced into any certain box, if that is not what she wants. We are trying to expose her to all kinds of faith now…
Leah on October 17th, 2006 1:53 pm

I love love love this post. It is so articulate, even thought what you’re trying to say is so impossible to articulate. My pro-choice-ness all stems from the fact that I think government involvement in abortion would just send it into a nice little FUBAR spiral - even though I think it’s such a sad thing.

You’ve helped me decide what book to buy with my birthday money, too. Way to go!

I’ve been Lutheran my whole life, and am happy with it. But so much of happiness with one’s church is based on the individual church. So many churches ARE accepting and aren’t crazy, but the crazy ones get the word out. So then I end up feeling embarrassed by my Christianity, which pisses me off. Argh.
Gwen on October 17th, 2006 2:05 pm

I don’t think anyone, not even the most vehemently pro-choice people, ever wish for more abortions to happen. Ideally, for me, women should have much more education about and access to birth control, including Plan B, and the need for abortion could then be diminished, and mostly for cases when a mother’s life is in danger.

I also feel very strongly that abortion should always be available, and actually encouraged, when a woman is impregnated by rape.
Nonacita on October 17th, 2006 2:13 pm

You are always so articulate when it comes to the hardest parts of life, and this is no exception.

When you talk about viable fetuses, consider that there will always be some fetuses that will never be viable. Babies that will not make it no matter what-that was our situation. Even though I have always been, and will probably always be Pro-Choice, I still fought the fact that we would have to terminate the pregnancy for my health, and as the best course of action. It’s never an easy decision. Knowing what amazing changes had already happened…it’s different once you feel that little new thing.

You are so brave in your honesty. And you make me laugh until I think I’m going to pee most of the time. Thanks for both.
Sara on October 17th, 2006 2:18 pm

This is the best blog post I’ve read in a long time. Something serious, something to really think about. Having a baby changes so many things, but I never would’ve guessed it could actually change who you are as a person, as it certainly has me. The birth of my son has shaken me to the core, made me feel things I never thought I could feel, made me care about things I never cared about before.

I admire people that are confident and strong in their beliefs, who can give good reasons for why they believe what they do. I just can’t seem to make up my mind on some things, and maybe that’s ok. How can anyone really say anything for sure?
Anais on October 17th, 2006 2:24 pm

Thank you for sharing this with us. =)
Sundry on October 17th, 2006 2:50 pm

Thanks for your nice comments, guys. I should be clear than when I said “It is now difficult for me to be objective or clinical about a process that prevents a viable baby from being born” I meant viable in the sense that the baby would have progressed “normally”, without the kind of complications that require a decision based on health matters; I also didn’t mean viable in that they could survive outside of the womb at that particular point.

Whew. Hope that makes sense.
Christine on October 17th, 2006 3:25 pm

It’s odd that you posted this today. I was on my way this morning to the imaging center for my first mammogram (!), and I passed by a high school, where I saw, outside on the sidewalk, a bunch of people holding big placards. I couldn’t see what was on the placards until I stopped at the light near the school’s parking lot…and there were the most horrific pictures — they weren’t photographs, they were drawn, like cartoons, of mangled fetuses. The caption at the top of each placard in HUGE letters, said “Abortion!”. Abortion protesters!? There were about six people out there next to a *high school*, standing in the rain. I have an extremely strong distaste for the in-your-face style of protesting, especially abortion protestors. Wanted to yell something obnoxious at them, but didn’t. I agree with you, though. Having a baby changes not necessarily your view on abortion, but rather the emotion that surrounds it. I would never want to be without the choice, but I don’t know if I could actually have an abortion, if it came to it. I hope that makes sense.
Amy on October 17th, 2006 3:29 pm

I feel compelled to write. Firstly, because I think you’re a fabulous writer and I have been lurking here for many months. Secondly, because what you write strikes such a chord with me (Not just today. Most days.) I am a Christian, a spiritual person, and a huge fan of Ann Lamott’s writing and honesty. I think you are completely right about the religious right’s thinly veiled “family values” being a mask for hate and intolerance. But what I’m so glad that you have realized from reading Lamott is that there are people out there (like her, like me) who know that knowing God is much more than sitting in a pew somewhere on a random Sunday. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
Jennifer on October 17th, 2006 3:30 pm

I think that was on of your most honest blogs yet. I admire your ability to be so candid and open and I also appreciate it.

I am a Christian, but not in the Americanized-bop-you-over-the-head-you-are-going-to-hell-born-again-obnoxious sense. My journey towards Christianity and Jesus is a personal and profound one. I am in no place to point fingers at, argue with, or try to convert anyone else to my way of thinking. I am as imperfect as they come and I have my share if mistakes under my belt. But after all the pain and all the mistakes, I have found my Purpose and that is what gets me out of bed every day; it is what allows me to love others more deeply, to be more understanding, and to be more compassionate.

That said, your writing always blows me away. Even when there are times that I don’t agree with what you’ve written, you allow me to see someone else’s point of view. Your blog has evoked more emotion out of me than any other blog I read and I thank you for that.
breckgirl on October 17th, 2006 3:42 pm

Thank you for your honest sharing. Everything does shift when you have a baby, doesn’t it? After I had my son, I started thinking that every time I ovulated and then had a period, I was losing another little person in that egg - I kinda felt like I should start trying to have as many as possible!!! Just a feeling, but it was funny at the time.

Um, I don’t think that family values are bullshit. I don’t hate anyone and I don’t just tolerate people - I accept them for who they are, non-believer agnostic, black, white, gay, straight, Christian, etc. It really isn’t up to me to judge the choices of other people - the true task of a Christian is to try and live their life in a Christ-like manner, which means loving people and encouraging them to accept His love. Christians who are judgmental and hateful give Christianity a bad name, because they are judging imperfect people when they themselves are just as imperfect. It creates that age old hypocrisy that some people seems to accuse ALL Christians of. I don’t claim to be perfect and I sin constantly, just like everyone else. But when I am making choices in my life, I try to make them in accordance with my Christian beliefs. I don’t personally think that is bullshit but I suppose there are some who do. All I can say is - I LOVE YOU, man.

I saw this bumper sticker yesterday that said - Welcome to America - Where you can’t hate anyone unless they’re WHITE. Sometimes it feels that way when it comes to Christianity. All Christians are judged as if they are crazy fundamentalists who hate everyone. That is just not the case and it is unfortunate that our media portrays such a skewed portrait. There are extremes in every walk of life and I suppose its the extremes that make the news!!

I really enjoy your blog, Linda. Thanks for providing a safe forum to read the opinions of others and to share my own. Please tolerate me!
Caitlin on October 17th, 2006 4:01 pm

Thank you for this; your honesty, as always, is so so refreshing.

Now that I’m in mid-20s range, my pro-choice stance is more and more about other women’s bodies, not my own. I’m older than my mom was when she had me, I’m in a longterm relationship, jeez, I even have two cats and car insurance! If I got pregnant now…I just don’t think I could end it. (But universe, if you’re listening, no babies for a long long time, please! We like being lazy!) The thing is though, I would never want to live in a world where someone else could decide that for me, or for any other woman. The polarity of this debate is so frustrating–pro-choice does not mean you think abortion is some great thing, but that you realize it’s a hard and sometimes necessary choice that needs to be kept safe and legal. And kept in the woman’s hands.
Sundry on October 17th, 2006 4:06 pm

Hey breckgirl: I totally respect what you’re saying. I should have been more clear that I am not bashing Christianity or saying that all Christians are as a total group any one thing or another. When I used the term “family values” (with the blatant, I hope, air quotes), I was referring to the poisonous right wing, homophobic, intolerant crap that like it or not, we sure see a lot of in this country these days.

The term has been used a lot by political parties who in my opinion don’t know a thing about global family values. But obviously it means different things to different people.
Brooke on October 17th, 2006 4:11 pm

I have been a Christian pretty much all my life. My fiance is agnostic and his dad is an atheist (hope he’s OK with the prayers and Biblical reflection at our wedding!). I have told my fiance that he is the best Christian-who-isn’t-a-Christian that I know. He is kind, patient, humble, thoughtful, a good citizen of the world. My ex-husband is a Christian who is not those things. Go figure.

I, too, enjoy your honesty.

Grace and peace be yours.
clearlydistracted on October 17th, 2006 4:27 pm

You’re awesome. Thanks for bulldozing right into the things that have occupied all of our minds but most of us are afraid to talk about. Your honest blogging is so refreshing.
biodtl on October 17th, 2006 4:45 pm

I can really relate to both of these issues. I was in the same situation, though I was a little bit older. I always felt comfotable with my choice, but after I ended up marrying the man I was newly dating at the time and going through a planned pregnancy, I started thinking about it more. Like you, I still am pro-choice and i can’t imagine changing that view, but at the same time, I see it as a necessary tragedy.

Also - the religion issue has been plaguing me lately. I just wrote an entry on my struggles - I have always believed and I feel like I am a spiritual person, but I am longing for happiness in an actual church. I have no problem with the believing/god/jesus part, but most churches I have experienced end up pissing me off by telling me what to do with my body or who to vote for or what to read or whatever and that’s where I find myself shutting down and going LALALALA I can’t hear you.
christen on October 17th, 2006 5:48 pm

Have you heard Wanda Sykes’ standup bit about abortion? Her problem with most pro-lifers is that they dub pro-choicers “pro-abortion.” No one is pro-abortion, just as she says. Though she puts a humorous spin on it, no woman sits around and says “hey girl, you wanna get crazy tonight? Let’s go get knocked up and then go have ABORTIONS.” You know? I thought I was pregnant earlier this year, and like you when you were younger, I had no means to support it, and knew that when it was born, I would resent it forever because it had “ruined” my life. I was not ready to have a baby. I saw what it did to several friends, and family members (my dad was the unwanted baby of an alcoholic, abusive father), to have a baby that they did not want, and though they tried to hide it, it was still OBVIOUS the child was unwanted–and let’s just say those kids did not turn out nicely. Not sure what I’m getting at here, but no one WANTS to have an abortion. Luckily for me, it was a false alarm, and I switched from the pill to an IUD. I’m all for personal responsibility, but I’m also all for not forcing women to have unwanted children–whether they give them up for adoption, which can be TRAUMATIC, or whether they are forced to raise them without means or support, or even desire. Anyone can have a baby, but not everyone should, just because they can. The same holds true for clothes–just because it comes in your size, doesn’t mean you should wear it. :)
jonniker on October 17th, 2006 5:59 pm

I had the same abortion experience. I have little - make that zero - regret about that decision, and I agree, I would not have this life, or rather, any life, the way I do now had I made a different decision. It was unequivocally the right one for me, and I haven’t really considered the moral implications for years. Practically, I know it was right, and I don’t really grapple with any long-term moral considerations about it. I’m not sure if I will later, but it’s been so many years, it’s hard to imagine any sort of what ifs, and I tend not to do regret well. I am also very open about this, whether it’s wise or not, I’ve yet to determine.

However. I’m not even a mother yet, and I already see the shift in my thinking towards how this goes towards myself moving forward, obviously, and I can understand what you’re saying here without question. On the flip side of the moral coin, I volunteer with Planned Parenthood, and I see up close and personally that not everyone has access to the same resources and support that we do, and that sometimes choices have to be made to sustain the life that already exists. And the things I deal with there keep my mind even more emotionally in the pro-choice camp than I even thought possible - even more so when I was the one in the stirrups.
erin on October 17th, 2006 6:03 pm

Having a baby changed my entire perspective on abortion as well. I understand that there are people who aren’t in a good position to take care of a child and that those unwanted children may very well grow up in horrific conditions. But it seems so terribly sad to me to be in the situation to have to make that choice knowing how complete the baby is at such an early developmental stage. The unwanted pregnancy rate needs to decline, through better contraceptive education and access to the morning after pill. Some politicians are now taking this stance, and I think it is one worth supporting.
Jacqueline on October 17th, 2006 6:42 pm

Having a baby and knowing what it does to my body, my life and the hard work it takes has made me EVEN MORE pro-abortion. There is no way a woman should be forced to have a child she does not want, end of story. While the miracle of an 8 week old fetus is something to behold, it can never trump a fully breathing, living, born woman.
LIsa on October 17th, 2006 6:43 pm

Sundry, you always say things so well, and spot on. I just read your entire entry to my husband, as a matter of fact. Becoming a mother really changes everything doesn’t it? Your post was honest, intelligent and refreshing - as have the comments so far. Now THAT is refresshing.
jonniker on October 17th, 2006 6:53 pm

Jaqueline, to some extent, I agree with you. From my (albeit brief) experience being pregnant, I will say that I never felt like more of a prisoner in my own body than I did then. I know/knew that if I had to carry it to term, my mind would have slowly eroded from the emotional and physical weight. I’m not advocating abortion as knee-jerk go-to solution, or suggesting that the physical inconvenience should weigh more heavily against other issues, but when you add that to individual circumstances, it certainly can complicate things.

I’m going to get in myself in a lot of trouble here if I keep up. I’m sorry. I always tend to overshare when this topic comes up, and I have no business speaking in the context of mothers’ (or anyone’s) personal feelings on abortion.
Eilis on October 17th, 2006 7:37 pm

I am not currently a mother, but hope to be someday soon. I have never been faced with the need to make a decision about having an abortion, but always believed very strongly that I would not bring a child into this world unless I could care for it and raise it in the type of stable environment I was brought up in. I mean, it’s just not fair to the child. Not to be able to provide basic needs, let alone the extra love and attention that I was afforded by my parents-the nurturing that made me who I am today. So many of the problems in society today stem from people’s roots. So many children are brought into the world by people that aren’t able to care for them. Sure, there’s a lot of families looking to adopt…but there are still so many children going to bed at night hungry or cold or lonely or just plain sad. I want my children to feel the warmth of my love at every moment of their lives, and I want them to appreciate the life that they will be able to have by being brought into the world by someone that can care for them until they are able to do it for themselves. It might be my medical background that makes me see abortion in a different light, or the fact that I am not yet a mother, but though the fetus is a “living thing,” it won’t have much of a life if it is born into a world where it is not wanted, cherished, and cared for.
I can understand where those of you that are now mothers are coming from–that your ideas of abortion have changed. And well they should–for your unborn children. You’re doing it! You’re raising your children and are able to take care of them. That doesn’t mean that other women are ready for that stage. Just another angle to look at…
Sundry on October 17th, 2006 7:59 pm

I think where I am fundamentally feeling the most confusion on this issue is over the fact that I don’t think I view a fetus’s life as having less value than an adult’s life. An unwanted pregnancy is usually not a healthy evironment for a child, and there are many considerations, as some of you have mentioned, but if I only look at the life of a fetus - only that and nothing else - I see a human being’s life. If that life is ended by the hands of someone else, is it not murder? Is it fair to decide that death is preferable to a life that may or may not be full of challenges and obstacles?

This is not my belief or my political choice at the moment. But I’m having trouble getting past those thoughts.

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in. I welcome all viewpoints.
Amanda on October 17th, 2006 8:03 pm

Amen, Linda. I agree on both points. I actually wish I could muster up some faith, since it seems like such a beautiful endeavor.

I think life begins at conception, but I will defend any woman’s right to have an abortion. It may be murder, but it’s merciful, which somehow makes it okay with me.

With every entry you write, I like you more and more. Maybe you can show me around WA when we move up there in a few months.
Sugar on October 17th, 2006 8:13 pm

Great post! I have been confused over the issue as well lately. Oregon has a measure on the November ballot regarding teenage abortion and parental notification. It has made me think. I also had an abortion and always have felt it was morally wrong but I did it and was glad for the option. It is a tough question.
Heidi on October 17th, 2006 8:13 pm

I’ve always believed that the only people qualified to vote for or against laws related to abortion are those who have had to actually MAKE this decision. I have never been faced with such a decision, so I can only guess what I would actually decide to do, and can only guess how I would feel about the consequences of my decision. Isn’t it crazy that it is primarily men (in congress and on the Supreme Court) with the power to pass laws related to abortion?!
zu on October 17th, 2006 8:34 pm

The bodies exhibit had the same influence on me…I couldn’t get over those perfect little bodies and I went through a phase of “yep, it’s a person inthere and abortion kills it” but it never changed my opinion on pro-choice. I liked what Heidi pointed out - let the women who HAD to make the choice - let them vote on the abortion law.

Thank you, Sundry, you wrote it so well.
Jem on October 17th, 2006 8:34 pm

I feel the same. I feel like I should be pro-life because of the actual baby but I can’t judge. It’s easy to say that if you can’t deal with what comes with sex you shouldn’t be having sex, but I know that’s easier said then done. I’m Christian and that book sounds interesting - very much like how I consider myself. I like the part of the Bible that says not to scream out prayers from the rooftop, do it in the privacy of your own bedroom so no one else hears. Most people don’t realise I’m Christian because I sing rock and I’m into metal and all that, and they’re always really surprised when I mention it. The only thing I can’t do is sing lyrics that are explicitly against religion.
jonniker on October 17th, 2006 8:35 pm

Linda, I don’t think there’s answer to that fetus/murder question, really, that I or anyone else can give for anyone, or even debate properly. I’ve gotten into this discussion so many times, with people at PP who think that the answer to that question may be the platform with which the Dems need to justify abortion issues (i.e., a fetus is not a viable life until XX date). But I really and truly, no matter what medical evidence is presented, don’t think that’s an answer anyone is qualified to give other than the individual who’s faced with the choice/consideration, because I guess it’s up to them to live with, along with reconciling it with whatever deity they choose.

There certainly is no clear medical answer to when life begins, no matter what both sides try to present. You know, it’s funny, part of the pro-choice argument - and why there are so many fractures within the movement - is that people can’t even agree what pro-choice really means. Is it without restriction? To a certain week of pregnancy? Is it partial birth abortions? Is it with or without extenuating medical circumstances? If I drove to my local Planned Parenthood right now, I would get eight different answers from eight different people.

Ah, such an interesting issue. And despite my personal beliefs and activism, I truly can understand all sides of the issue, and why people struggle with it so much. It’s not easy. (and I swore I was shutting up. I SWORE I WAS. And now I swear I’m going to bed.)
Lisa on October 17th, 2006 8:36 pm

So I will be the big jerk who makes the joke about how life doesn’t begin at conception, it begins at 40. Because it’s there, man. Someone has to do it.

I was raised to believe that all life begins at conception and that every conception, regardless of circumstance (rape) or outcome (horrible medical conditions) was God’s will, so who were we to decide the value of a human life? Ours was to accept the miracle of pregnancy, even if it was a miracle rooted in violation or pruned by pain and suffering.

To spare you all my long and tedious I-grew-up-Catholic-and-then-I-questioned-everything-I-learned story: the only stance I can really say I have on abortion now is of the “Don’t want one? Don’t have one. Don’t want other people to have one? Then make sure they don’t have a reason to get one — give ‘em better sex ed and access to birth control that works.” Everything else is still up for discussion.
Staci on October 17th, 2006 9:37 pm

This line you just wrote…

…but if I only look at the life of a fetus - only that and nothing else - I see a human being’s life. If that life is ended by the hands of someone else, is it not murder?…

that captures exactly how I feel.

I don’t want to make decisions about what anybody else can or cannot do. I don’t want to be called pro life or pro choice because frankly, some of the things done by each side of this issue scare me.

But for me, I can’t get past my belief that life begins at conception.
christen on October 17th, 2006 9:41 pm

Being a non-mom and having no desire to be a mom in the near future, I’d have to say that I am anti-the-use-of-the-word-murder to describe abortion. “Murder” is something that you see on television–bloody bodies lying on the street, killed out of pure hatred and anger. I highly doubt most women who are faced with an abortion are psychotically plotting to “murder” that small cluster of cells that has latched on to the side of their uterus. I think that “murder” in the CSI sense of the word isn’t quite accurate, because when you think of it that way, most folks would argue that anything is better than murder, right?

I would like to present an example just to illustrate that not every decision is better than abortion.

My father’s best friend has a daughter that is the same age as I am - 27 - and while we were never close, I knew her and thought she was so cool. We lived far away, so we didn’t spend much time together. Anyway, when I turned 16 I found out she had had twins. She had been drinking and doing drugs while pregnant (no one knew she was pregnant), and she had them at the term of four months. She hadn’t told anyone she was pregnant, because her dad was religious and of course, he would not have allowed an abortion, I’m sure. Not only that, in the towns we lived in, there weren’t exactly planned parenthoods on every corner (both small towns) and honestly, at 16 I probably didn’t even know what an abortion was, and barely had an idea what a condom was for. Her? I don’t know what she knew. Remember, this was a while ago… before the internet, eh?

Regardless, the boys were born almost 5 and a half months early. One had such severe water on the brain that he is basically a vegetable. As soon as he was old enough to sit then stand, word was that he just spent all day in his crib, banging his head on the wall for hours on end. Just banging his head, sometimes crying. The other one wasn’t much better off.

She of course got welfare money (and I am not knocking welfare–I grew up on it, and would have probably been severely malnourished if we hadn’t had food stamps and government cheese), which instead of spending on diapers and baby food, she saved up and spent on a babysitter and to go party on the weekends. She got the WIC food and the food stamps, which she bought food and diapers with. I’m not sure if she worked, but I imagine that she did to feed her drinking and drug habit. Keep in mind though, she was 16, and 16-year-olds can’t work full time in the state of Michigan.

Her dad had already declared bankruptcy and was working as a public school teacher. She didn’t have a good relationship with her mom, because she herself was a child of a rape. (Her dad was her adopted dad, technically–but had divorced mom a while back). So, mom and dad couldn’t pay her bills, and were in no place to adopt two twin boys. The foster care/child welfare system is so strapped for funding and workers in that state, that I’m not the least bit surprised that she still has those boys.

I’m not sure why she didn’t put them up for adoption. I don’t want kids, and obviously I was only 16–so what was I to do? Drop out of high school and move in and help her? I think not.

Of course, not getting pregnant would have been the best option–but that’s not always the way it works out.

So when you say murder, it seems so harsh–but really, is murder any worse than those boys living that life? Are those boys really lucky to be alive? They live in pain every day, and really, I don’t see that changing. They’ve got to be what, 11 years old now? I can’t imagine what their lives will be like for the next 50, 60 years. To say that unwanted children don’t always have happy family lives is a major understatement. It all depends on the degree of how unwanted they are, not to mention how screwed up their parents are, what resources they have available, and a million other factors. Unwanted with resources; that’s one thing. Unwanted and born to a drug addict/alcoholic girl with no parental support and no desire whatsoever to be a mother? Very different.

And I know all the moms there will say that once you have that baby, even if you didn’t want it, you will love it and it will be your whole life. I’ve got cousins and a father that are living proof that that doesn’t always happen. And it screws people up, in ways that aren’t always possible to reverse. I can see the damage that is done when the child KNOWS that he wasn’t wanted, and that his mom HATED him and RESENTED him from day one, because she believes he ruined her life. It’s not fun. The mothers that have unwanted babies and end up loving them and making happy homes for them are very, very lucky that they were emotionally able to have that reaction and physically able to provide for those children. VERY lucky.

I guess the point of that story is that some of the previous posters have hit the nail on the head. Whether abortion is right, or moral, or the best decision really truly cannot be a blanket decision–it completely depends on each individual person facing that decision, and what situation that person is in–there’s just no way to say yes it’s the way to go, or no it’s wrong unless the mother’s life is in danger.

There’s just too much gray area, and too many babies living lives like that to say it’s wrong all the time.

Sorry to go off, Sundry. (I think my comment is longer than your whole blog). I just gotta stick up for those of us who have seen the other side of things!!
Leslie on October 17th, 2006 9:53 pm

I’m with Heidi in my dismay that the legalities of women’s rights usually lie in the hands of men. I get *infuriated* when I hear virulently pro-life men rant. Dudes, until you’ve sweated over a late period, held the hand of a friend whose boyfriend of five years broke up with her over the consequences of a broken condom, or feared rape from a date or stranger, SHUT UP.

As an adoptee, I should be less pro-choice than I am, I guess. Certainly, I’m grateful to the girl — she was 16 — who didn’t scrape me out. But I don’t think I’d do the same. The Morning After Pill seems the best solution … so don’t get me started on pharmacists who refuse to dispense it.
ivymae on October 17th, 2006 11:30 pm

All I can say is thank you for trusting us enough to be honest with us about things so very … fragile.
Nancy on October 17th, 2006 11:43 pm

Thank you for again opening your life to us. I have always felt that abortion was murder but, oddly, should not be banned by the government. I won’t go into great detail, and I’m not looking to debate or argue. Kind of like you, after I gave birth to my first baby and was awed at the miracle of life, I don’t know how I could ever think about abortion the same way. (Those fingers…. those toes…. at only 8 weeks…)
Mama Ritchie on October 18th, 2006 12:36 am

First let me say thanks for supporting my girl Anne Lamott - I suggested Traveling Mercies for a book club meeting (which you did NOT attend, I might add) and almost everyone hated it except me and Gael. She was the first evangelical I could relate to (the second being our homegirl Chiara, but she’s reformed so I don’t know if that counts) and I would recommend reading all of her books - including all of her fiction - because she’s awesome.

Abortion. Girl. Let me say this - my feelings on abortion did not change at all after having my baby. I firmly believe that it is not my business to tell another woman what choices she’s allowed to make. I hate when people try to tell me what to do. But my feelings about birth control DID change. As in, if you don’t want a baby, get some fucking birth control.. And I know that no birth control is 100% effective blase-blah, but it’s more effective than the number of unwanted babies out there - I don’t even know if that makes sense. I guess what I’m saying is the choice to have an abortion is one of the hardest choices a woman can make, but the choice to have protective sex is so fucking easy that there should only be 2-3% of unwanted pregnancies out there. What’s refreshing is how all of the commenters here have all put a lot of thought about if and when they wanted to have a child. We waited 7 years before we were ready. Not for our sake, but for the sake of our child. He’s better for it, and so are we.

I saw your title and I was all, oh she is NOT going there. But you did and you did it well.
Mama Ritchie on October 18th, 2006 12:54 am

Let me clarify one thing - Children having children - well, I don’t blame them for messing up with the whole birth control thing. The group I’m most upset with are the pro-lifers who refuse to discuss birth control education, because HORROR! That might make these kids have SEX! The more education there is about birth control, the less unwanted pregnancies there will be, and the fewer choices regarding abortion will have to be made. Birth control is such an easy thing - young people should know about it and not be restricted in obtaining it. God it makes me crazy - thanks, Sundry. I’m gonna be awake for a few hours now.
G on October 18th, 2006 1:55 am

One thing I never understood is why we have to wait 4-6 weeks into the pregnancy to have the abortion. I knew I was pregnant within a week. I always felt slightly punished because I had to stay pregnant for antother month before they would do my abortion.
TB on October 18th, 2006 4:53 am

Re: abortion, you and I seem to have had identical experiences. I have written and erased a post about my changing feelings at least ten times. Now that I’m pregnant, I feel conflicted in a way I never did before, not that I think I made a bad choice because I know I didn’t.

I totally understand where you’re coming from.
Emily on October 18th, 2006 5:13 am

As far as abortion goes, I’m a bit torn. While I agree that a woman should have the right to choose, I can’t help but believe that there has got to be a better option. But then, I’ve never had to make a choice like that, my perspective is a little skewed, I guess.

The faith question, though, is even more difficult. I’ve always tended toward the “there is a higher power” school of thought; still, inner conflict about what exactly I should be having faith in has been a part of my life for years. I read a book by C.S. Lewis last year, though, that really helped me to get a better grasp on the whole situation — “Surprised By Joy.” I highly recommend it, if only because after I finished digesting it, my mind not only felt clearer, but I felt noticeably (and this is going to sound cheesy, but it’s true) … happier. Weird, huh?
Kaire on October 18th, 2006 5:44 am

First off, I’m in total awe and admiration that there are 40+ posts here and not a fight! It’s a hot topic and I agree with so many of the points made here. On the Chicago stations now there is a political ad running and the subject is his view on abortion. They have him SAYING that it doesn’t matter if a woman is pregnant due to rape or incest, or even if the mother is in harm of dying from the pregnancy, the baby’s right is the one that matters. (ad done by his advisary I might add) That’s about the only thing I take a strong angry stance on, some GUY saying what a woman should endure.

I can’t fathom the strength it takes to want to be carrying a child! I know as a teen I would have probably killed myself had I ever been pregnant, I just couldn’t have fathomed going through with it (and I didn’t have that worry, thanks to being shy & fat!) The family drama would have been so hideous.

Abortion, adoption, keeping a baby … all have so much involved when making the choice. Sex education is the best route. In fact last weekend I had a talk with my boyfriend’s 18 year old. I explained to him all the ways a girl on the pill can screw up and get pregnant. I figured since we were talking sex any how, he should know that “I’m on the pill” doesn’t mean “I can’t get knocked up!” I really emphasised that it’s his responsibility too and if a girl gets pregnant, here’s what can happen. Know what? He thanked me for telling him and was rather in shock of how easily bc can fail. (antibiotics, throwing up after taking their pill, having the flu & diahhrea, forgetting a day or two of them)

Most people think I’m stepping over my bounds telling him this stuff. I’m *not* his mother. I say he trusts me, he confides in me (geeze HE was the one who brought up girls & what is happening on campus!) so I’d be irresponsible as someone who loves him to not educate him. There are too many kids born that were “mistakes” … there is no point in putting a woman in the situation of making these choices if you can prevent it. Plus I know he goes back to his friends and does the whole “dude, did you know …” so the education travels.

Whew! All this when I meant to say “kudos” to all participating in this discussion. I’ll leave religion alone :)
John on October 18th, 2006 6:21 am

Abortion is tricky, but think about this: Could you have been the mother that child deserved? How many children are born to parents who simply do not want them? Yes, they act the part, yes, they may even love them… but there is a certain disconnect you can see. Go to a Wal-Mart some time (or any other sea-of-humanity type place) and look at the families. You can tell sometimes who really didn’t want to be a parent. Why should the children suffer because of this?

My wife and I have a friend who has had the proceedure twice. It is for the best, honestly. She is bi-polar and struggling with a great deal of emotional issues. As a mother, she would have been… amiss. Passing on the damage she hadn’t had time or ability to sort out, to an innocent child. Creating another, possibly more damaged life.

On the flipside, my wife and I had to terminate a pregnancy. There were medical issues. The child would have lived a short painful life, my wife may not have been able to carry another child and may have been at risk of her own life had the pregnancy continued. It was and is the toughest choice we have ever made. But I am glad we had the choice.

As for religion, if you are looking, I recommend a trip to www.uua.org

I am a Unitarian-Universalist (not as scary as it sounds), and one of the things we profess and encourage is a free and responsible search for meaning. Be it traditional Christian paths, Buddhist paths, Wicca, or whatever. You may not decide to be or associate yourself as a UU, but we are a good group for bouncing ideas about spirituality off of.

Other than that, read “The Tao Of Pooh?” A silly book, yes. But also quite profound.
Joanne on October 18th, 2006 6:35 am

Wow, when I read the first line of your entry, I thought you were kidding! Aren’t you brave!

I am a religious person (although I do not think of myself as a member of the ‘religious right’, I don’t wave signs or have hate for others, thinly veiled or not) and I am morally opposed to abortion and mostly always have been. I really relate to what you say, though, about how differently you feel about such major things after Riley’s birth. It is so crazy what being a mother does to me - I feel responsible for not just my child, but all children that have been born to any mother just like me. As for faith, I think you’re smart to not just sit there and not believe, but to at least open your mind to what others that you respect and like have gone through with regard to their faith.
Jessie on October 18th, 2006 6:40 am

Very brave entry. I guess my take on the whole issue is that I’m pro-life for myself, but don’t feel I can make that decision for anyone else, so mainly, I’m pro-choice.

Can I tell you how much I love Anne Lammott’s writing? Her words have gotten me through some tough times. Her books are incredible!
Whitters on October 18th, 2006 6:41 am

I, too, had an abortion, and I’ve never regretted it. Since I’m an atheist, religion doesn’t come into play with my beliefs, but even if I were religious, I would believe that abortion should be safe and legal so that other women could choose for themselves.

For me, personally, I don’t see “potentiality” as a reason to criminalize abortion. I guess because I’m a hard-nosed, unsentimental realist (some might say cynic, heh), I just don’t put much stock into mere potential, what might be. My personal belief is actually quite in line with Judaism, in that I don’t believe life begins until the baby is actually born.

But again, that’s just me. I’m all for everyone having different views. What upsets me is when people want to enforce those views on everyone else. Most pro-choicers I know are NOT pro-abortion; many are actually morally opposed to it. But they fight to keep abortion legal so that it’s an option for women.
warcrygirl on October 18th, 2006 6:57 am

As a Christian I feel that abortion (used as a means of birth control) is wrong, however; as a woman I feel it is not my place to make that decision for a woman. God didn’t allow us to evolve to the top of the food chain, to evolve into the intelligent beings that we are and not allow us to make our own choices. What a lot of religions forget is that faith is only faith if it is of one’s own freewill; anything else is oppression disguised as faith.

I did the exact same thing you did; abortion at 18, had a child and decided that maybe there really was more “out there”. Please don’t think that all Christians are the holier-than-thou club, some of us really are pretty accepting.
Ang on October 18th, 2006 7:01 am

It’s amazing how offspring can change so much. It goes way beyond interrupting our sleep!
Annie on October 18th, 2006 7:07 am

Thanks for posting this. Not all abortions are due to unwanted pregnancy. I wanted my baby badly but found out at 20 weeks that he would only suffer for a short time after birth and then die. So we chose to terminate. Yes, I had a late term abortion. It was the best decision we could make for our unborn son and for our family. One more week and it wouldn’t have been legal. Keep that in mind when you vote next month.
Karla on October 18th, 2006 7:12 am

Your post is so well written. I had a hard time understanding where my views on abortion and religion fit in anymore after I gave birth too, and said goodbye to my first baby all on the same day, and then had a miscarriage a few months later.

I am definitely pro-choice, but at the same time, it hurts knowing someone is giving up a baby when I have lost two. And faith? Not that I am a particularly religious person, but any shards of faith that I had were completely ripped to the core when my baby died. Some days, I think it is my lack of faith that got me through that, because I didn’t want to believe in a master plan from a god that killed babies, or condemns people for making difficult decisions, like proceeding with an abortion.

There is more to humanity than fitting into the boxed in rules of religion.
Lori on October 18th, 2006 7:43 am

Long time lurker here, I just had to say your writing just keeps getting better and better.
wealhtheow on October 18th, 2006 8:09 am

I’d love to see a world where no woman ever had to get an abortion. But this world isn’t perfect yet, and as long as women are faced with difficult choices I’ll support their right to make the choice that is the best for them.

A friend has the same feelings you do, Sundry. He has a big problem with the pro-choice movement not acknowledging that abortion is ending a life. I told him that I would never tell a woman who had an abortion that she just killed her baby, and I would never tell a woman that had a miscarriage that her baby wasn’t alive. I truly do believe that when life begins needs to be between a woman and her doctor (and the father if he’s involved).
Pete on October 18th, 2006 8:16 am

Really good post. The rest has been said by those before me.
b. on October 18th, 2006 8:19 am

I’m not a Christian, but I am religious…in my particular faith, it is generally believed that the soul is breathed into the fetus at 40 days. Abortion is not supported, even if the baby is not wanted, but it’s not forbidden, either (keeping in mind that it is an assumption that conception will occur within the confines of marriage). Extenuating circumstances can and do exist; these are recognized and considered valid reasons to get an abortion if necessary (usually within that forty-day period before the soul turns that collection of cells into a life). Birth defects, the health of the mother — physically and mentally — incest, rape, etc., are among the extenuating circumstances. Birth control is highly encouraged to prevent pregnancy if the couple doesn’t want children for whatever reason. That’s my religious side of the coin.

My secular side of the coin: I am pro-choice. Despite what I personally feel and believe about babies and abortion, I can in no way condemn a woman to illegal and dangerous backstreet abortions. How to put this clearly? All life has the right to exist without being killed, but women (and teenaged girls) have a greater degree to that right to life than does an fetus. If an individual is truly anti-abortion, his or her efforts would be better spent ensuring that unwanted pregnancies didn’t happen in the first place.

It’s never easy to face the reality of abortion. Now that I, myself, have two children, exactly what is lost when a could’ve-been child is aborted is painfully and heartwrenchingly clear. But my soul grows cold at the thought of taking the choice away from women. Claiming the moral high ground and making abortion illegal, when the ramifications of that legal decision are broken bodies, broken lives, broken minds, and broken hearts, is nothing short of hypocrisy.
KJ on October 18th, 2006 9:18 am

Sundry - you are an inspiration to us all with your diplomacy, your patience, and your strength of character! Even when we get some of the details wrong or read something into your posts that wasn’t there to begin with - we’re all eager to drink it in and discuss it with peace, compassion, and intelligence. Thank you for giving us this gift of a secret little community we can share together. All of us weird-o’s out here really love it when you bring out posts like this. We also love the poop stories and the retina searing-ly cute baby pics. We love hearing about your iron-clad union to like, the MOST awesome hubby ever. It takes some serious grapes to put this kind of stuff online for the world to see - and we, the world, are far better off for it.

Thanks again m’lady!
I’ll go be a dork to myself again now.
Rayshell on October 18th, 2006 9:25 am

Linda…Thank you! I have read your blog for almost a year now and LOVE it! I can really relate to your post today though. I also had an abortion (at 16!). 12 years later I am still with the same man and he is now my husband and GOD I love him!! We are trying for a baby now and I am SO scared. I wonder if I will have issues concieving (sp?). Will our baby be healthy? I am pro choice, but damn I feel so different about it now. Just knowing that I aborted a living being is hard but I know I had to get my life right before I could have another person depend on me. I’m ready! :)
Jane on October 18th, 2006 9:28 am

Another thing about being pro-choice that people always miss: it’s not just abortion. It’s pro-choice to let women who have 13 children to have a 14th. It’s pro-choice to allow couples go ahead and have a baby even though they know there’s a 1 in 4 chance of the baby having a genetic birth defect that will cause it to die at birth. It’s pro-choice to allow crackhead women to remain fertile. Reproductive freedom means that the government can’t tell you what you do with your uterus, not just whether you can have an abortion or not and that’s why I support it. I had three miscarriages in a row, and that completely changed my view on abortion, because you better believe that seeing a heartbeat at five weeks meant “baby” to me, but I wouldn’t dream of telling someone else what “baby” means to them.
renovatingme on October 18th, 2006 9:55 am

I used to feel very very very strongly about the right to choose before my son was born. And while I feel we as women should have the right to decide what to do with their body, like Sundry I saw this exhibit and all I can say is WOW.

I too like many other women had an abortion. One at the age of 16 and the other at 19. Am I sad because I had them? Yes and No. Yes in the sense that I am sorry I didn’t have the support I needed, and no — because it was the right choice for me at those times. And terribly frustrating because I was on the pill both times. I am greatful that I had the choice and those services available to me.

I still want women to have the right to choose, but I will stick my neck out here and say I hope they choose not to abort but to carry their baby to term and place it for adoption if they feel they can’t care for a baby.

Did that make sense?
Staci on October 18th, 2006 10:01 am

It has been so good for me to read all of these comments. I didn’t realize that pro choice doesn’t mean pro abortion… I’m so glad to learn that.

Maybe if we showed teens the Bodies exhibit (and also left them alone for a weekend with a screaming newborn!) they would really see the painful choice they would have to make if they accidentally got pregnant (abortion or keep the baby). Maybe that is the kind of information they need to decide whether or not to have sex and whether or not to use birth control.
Kari on October 18th, 2006 10:07 am

I was 18 when I found out I was pregnant with Starla. I was in college and my boyfriend (now fiance) loves me very much. I never had a second thought about it. I had a 2 year old little brother and countless young cousins that I had taken care of, so I knew how to take care of a child. I didn’t enjoy college at all and didn’t want to be there in the first place. So I guess it was just the right time for me. I wish that we had been better prepared money-wise and such, but we live comfortably now, finally. Everything is getting pretty good now. She’s a year old. I’m so glad I didn’t have an abortion. I never thought about it though. But I can see where to some, it may be the only possible option.
squandra on October 18th, 2006 10:24 am

I don’t know how to thank you for posting this.

Every word.
Sue on October 18th, 2006 10:32 am

I think your title says it all… this complicated life. Sure is!
Thanks for all your great posts!
gabby on October 18th, 2006 11:01 am

Chalk me up for another Christian (in the non-crazy fundamentalist kind of way - we actually do believe in being tolerant, gracious and….shall I say it? Christlike towards all humans! Shocker, I know.) who is anti-abortion, but pro-choice. I don’t believe in it, I don’t like it, but our country would be poorer if that choice was taken away and I certainly can’t imagine condemning anyone who did make that choice (yeah, the self professed Christians who are physically or mentally or verbally abusive to those who believe differently? Make my head hurt. Do they not know the basic commandments? Sheesh…).

Our baby was born this summer and it was advised that I don’t have any more for the sake of my health & life. We are doing steps to prevent us getting pregnant again, but should something happen and we end up pregnant, I can’t lie and say I won’t be very glad that choice is there. Whatever we may decide to do.
angela on October 18th, 2006 11:52 am

I do not have children, but my BF does and he is pro-choice, and separates his children from his views. Maybe it’s a mother thing? Having carried the child and all? Hard to say.

Someone mentioned that they hate how Chistians are all lumped together as fundamentalist wakos. It’s not like that for me, although I’m sure as an Athiest, I dislike crazy fundamentalist Christians just as much as the “normal” Christians do. For me, it’s that Christians can’t seem to stick to their religions, making excuses and exceptions for whatever suits them. I don’t like wishy-washy people. But that’s just me. The whole christian faith is splintered into so many denomonations, simply because someone decided they ddn’t like the way things were being done, so they made up a new religion. I find that odd. I’m sure it’s the same with other religions. People claim to be a religion, but they don’t practice, and then judge those who hold different views.

Being Athiest is not a total lack of morals and values, being Athiest means determining them for yourself, not just accepting someone else’s. And being an Athiest takes a certain amount of faith as well. There are so many holes in humans’ collective knowledge, but I have faith that one day science will explain it all.

That being said, I hate talking about religion. I think it is such a private and personal matter, and really, I choose to believe what I believe and you choose what you believe and that’s it. Sitting around trying to convince people that what you believe is right is such a waste of time to me. I’d rather spend time enjoying my life and my friends and my family, than fighting with strangers about such personal things.
MRW on October 18th, 2006 11:53 am

I agree with Caitlin that as I reached my mid-twenties, my pro-choice stance became more directed towards other women’s bodies than my own mainly because at that point, although it would have been hard, I could have supported a child on my own. After having a miscarriage and a baby, my thoughts on abortion remain much the same as Lisa’s: “Don’t want one? Don’t have one. Don’t want other people to have one? Then make sure they don’t have a reason to get one — give ‘em better sex ed and access to birth control that works.” I had the luxury of having access to sex ed, health care which meant the pill, and because I turned 15 the year AIDS really started making headlines and news, I still made guys use condoms. As a result, I could choose when to try to get pregnant, so many other girls and women don’t have that luxury, which is incredibly sad.

As for religion, I guess I’d say I believe in some kind of higher being, but I don’t believe in religion. Was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school etc, but I guess it didn’t take because I have too many problems with “the church” to stay there. I think some of the ideas espoused in the bible are good guidelines for life - love your neighbor, turn the other cheek, let he who is without sin throw the first stone, etc, but lots of these ideas seem to get ignored or sublimated, so I just try to keep them as guildelines and leave the rest. I don’t really believe there is someone out there controling our lives or defining our destiny, but there are things that, although they explainable by science, remain miraculous anyway. I guess I seem to be taking logic and faith and putting them in the blender on high ;-)
Louise on October 18th, 2006 12:51 pm

Thankyou for broaching this subject so honestly. I’ve ALWAYS been a great believer in pro-choice, and have always voiced that opinion and yet friends still feel uncomfortable around me if the subjects of pregnancy and abortion come up. I’ve had two miscarriages in my life, and I had to have a hysterectomy when I was 30 (I’m now 37), so people automatically assume that I’m going to rage and holler at anyone who chooses to end a pregnancy, just because none of mine were fruitful and never will be.

Looking back on my life now, and what I’ve accomplished I realise that if my first pregnancy (at 17) hadn’t ended in a miscarriage I wouldn’t be the woman that I am today, and certainly wouldn’t of been able to support and raise the child as I feel children should be - I was a child myself back then.

Each woman, has a choice in this life. Whether we ultimately make the right choice is neither here nor there, we have to live with what we decide at that moment, and make that choice with our heads held high. For me, the choices were taken out of my hands, but I commend and honour the women, who everyday make such difficult decisions.
jonniker on October 18th, 2006 12:53 pm

As a random aside, I would like to add that birth control isn’t foolproof, as I can say from first-hand experience, and there seems to be a pervasive assumption that if you get pregnant, it’s somehow your fault because you weren’t taking all of the precautions and/or properly educated (Everyone has been quite gracious here, so this is directed at no one here.)

I got pregnant when I was on all sorts of birth control. By all accounts, I was entirely “responsible,” which goes to say that it could indeed, happen to anyone. Statistically and qualitatively, I am (and was) nothing like the candidate for abortion that immediately leaps into people’s minds, I guess, and I’m pretty sure there are others like me who made other choices. I guess I’m just thankful that the choice is there, and that no matter what, right now, we all get to pick what’s best for us, and don’t have to justify our circumstances to anyone else.

(My freaking God, this is my fourth or fifth comment. Clearly, uh, I think about this a lot.)
angela on October 18th, 2006 1:07 pm

Jonniker, i have had to resist the urge to post multiple comments. When it comes to this subject matter, I find it’s really hard to put into words my true feelings on the subject. I’ve already found 36589 problems with the comment I posted, but eh.
Sonia (DDM) on October 18th, 2006 1:40 pm

I heart you Linda. Thank you for this.
Donna on October 18th, 2006 2:03 pm

Good discussion. Nice people. Hard decisions.
Didn’t have an abortion, I was lucky I never got caught pregnant.
Then I was on the pill. It made me have migraines so bad I was suicidal.
So I went off the pill. And by then I had been married for 3 years, and it was time to have a baby anyway. So I had a daughter. Then I did get caught pregnant with my son using contraceptive foam. The doctor asked me if I wanted an abortion, and I freaked out. I would never have considered it. So I had my son, had my tubes tied right then, and never had to worry about it again.
I never once considered having an abortion, but I am glad that to this day, if I needed one I would have that option. I don’t know if I could. Not because I believe it is a baby from the moment of conception, I don’t. I do know that if the morning after pill was available I would use it if I needed to. But because I don’t think that anyone should be able to tell me I have to have kids, the same as I don’t think anyone should be able to tell me how many kids to have. Like someone else said, pro choice is just that, prochoice.
You are brave Linda, to start this discussion, to say that you had an abortion, and to take the chance that people would lose their minds here. Bravo.
victoria on October 18th, 2006 2:22 pm

I have never been pregnant, never had a kid or a termination. But I thought it was really brave of you to post this. Thank you.
robin j. on October 18th, 2006 2:46 pm

Just one point to keep in mind: the ‘6-week-old’ fetbryo in the exhibit correlates to what we think of as 8 weeks pregnant.
Anne on October 18th, 2006 2:50 pm

It’s so funny all of the issues and emotions that swirl around the abortion debate. I had a very long and passionate debate a few weeks back with a good friend. She argued that if my reason for being pro-choice was that the government shouldn’t regulate people’s chioces about their bodies, then I should be against laws making drugs and suicide illegal.

The argument had gotten to the point where I couldn’t make a rational point anymore, I was so worked up, so we left it there.
angela on October 18th, 2006 3:29 pm

I may sound like a total loser, but suicide is illgal? really? wow.

Drug laws are more social laws, than “body” laws, IMO. Also, I saw a really intresting special on the history of drugs in the US, and the only reason that drugs are illegal is because the first DEA guy appointed was regarded as kind of a loser, so they made him in charge of what they felt was a problem with no solution, and BAM, he finds a loophole in the law to make drugs illegal, gets a promotion and personal fame, and the laws still stand to this day.
Sundry on October 18th, 2006 3:54 pm

I didn’t know suicide was illegal either. That’s…completely nuts.
Katie on October 18th, 2006 4:11 pm

I’m commenting before reading any other comments–to keep my viewpoint straight here.

As my grandfather says, “Every child deserves to be conceived in love and born into joy.” For some, that isn’t the reality. And for them, and for all of our sakes–the government should NOT be butting in. Some fat white MAN in D.C. should not tell me what I can or cannot do. It is my choice. And if my daughter finds herself pregnant in a few years and desperately trying to end it, it DAMN well better be safe and legal. If she dies from some brutal coat hanger type accident, I would never forgive the “pro-lifers.”

Ann Lamott–one of my heroes. Someone who keeps me from leaping off the bandwagon of “religion” every chance I get. Also, try reading Marcus Borg. His view of Christianity is one I can actually swallow without gagging. It is based on history and academics and REALITY.

Thank you for writing such a thoughtful (and gutsy) post. Now I will read the other comments!
Jen on October 18th, 2006 4:28 pm

re: the religion part of this -

I just read something last night in my book for Sunday School about world religions (don’t laugh, we just finished learning about how correct evolution is)… this is portions of a speech by Jimmy Carter:

“The first step [to religious extremism] is to feel that our faith is superior… The second step is to believe that anyone who disagrees with us is also disagreeing with God. [The third step] is to say that those who disagree with God are… not only mistaken, but inferior… [the fourth step is] to say that those who disagree with God, their lives are not worthy in the eyes of God… but to exalt ourselves as the singular and chosen believers, that’s when the cruelty comes and the basic principles of our faith are abandoned.”

The crazy ones ruin it for everyone. Faith is a very personal thing. My own is constantly changing and getting much more liberal as I get older and learn more than the black and white world view taught to kids in church. The more I try to learn the more questions I have, unanswerable questions. All I know at this point is that it seems like the only thing to do is to try to truly love one’s neighbor, regardless of any situation.

Thank you for posting this.
thejunebug on October 18th, 2006 4:31 pm

I’ve always believed in a woman’s right to choose, but I’ve always also believed in personal responsibility– if you can’t handle the possibility of being pregnant, or if you can’t imagine someone being your baby’s father, don’t have sex. Not abstinence per se… but intelligent consideration of consequences.

I think the only time I’d have made that choice myself is if I were in your situation… 18 is too young. Right now when I’m 25, married, and in a stable job? Never. But I wont stop someone else from making the choice.

As for religion… I grew up LDS, and we believe in a pre-life and after-life existence.
Emily on October 18th, 2006 5:11 pm

I already commented, but I thought of something I wanted to add, based on something I heard while listeing to election nonsense this morning, and which came back into my mind because of what you wrote in response to someone’s comment about whose lives are more valuable: a baby’s or an adult’s …

I think it’s odd that politically these days, liberal Democrats are pro-choice/anti-Iraq war, and conservative Republicans are pro-life/pro-Iraq war. I mean, in both cases, people are dying — why is it okay for Christians (since they are mostly Republican/conservative) to approve of war deaths, but not abortion? (And vice-versa, for the other groups.) FUCK, this world is so damn confusing.
Erica on October 18th, 2006 8:38 pm

There are already so many comments here - and I haven’t read them all, so I may well be repeating things that have already been said - my apologies for that, but here goes anyway.

As a personal choice, I am against abortion. It could never be right FOR ME. Politically, though, I am pro-choice.

You see, I am the adoptive mother of two wonderful girls who both lived terrible lives before coming to me because of abuse and neglect at the hands of incapable, drug-addicted parents. Every day, my life revolves around making up for the sins of other people.

I have a seven year old daughter who wants so badly to love and be loved and, yet, cannot quite grasp the concept that I will never leave her, that I do love her and that real love means forever. She carries the scars of severe ADHD, ODD, Bi-polar Disorder and more with her every day. She has had to be hospitalized twice in fear of her hurting herself and/or others.

I also have a 14 year old who was shuffled around from her parents to foster homes and back again for eight years before landing here. She was starved physically and emotionally. Everyone who was ever supposed to look out for her, take care of her, ended up hurting her. She is only now, at this hormone driven difficult age, learning how to carry and present herself. How not to make herself a sex object in order to gain approval. Even the medication she takes for depression and PTSD is a daily reminder that she is not like other girls her age. That she was not loved and protected the way she should have been.

Is it for me to say, that it would have been better had they never been born. I can’t say that. I love these children as if they were my own. I can’t imagine my life without them. And yet, when I think of the horrors they have faced AS CHILDREN, how can I not hope that at least an abortion would have prevented all this pain?

Of course I don’t mean that every woman who has aborted a child would have a situation that turned out like my girls’, but even if it is one in 10, one in 100…

I just don’t know.
Sundry on October 18th, 2006 11:19 pm

Can I just say how appreciative I am of everyone’s thoughtful, respectful comments? Thank you all for such an interesting conversation.
Kim on October 18th, 2006 11:52 pm

I haven’t read all the comments above– it’s late and I need to get to bed. But thanks for your honesty, for not tying it all up in a neat little stance. It’s a messy issue.

And I love me some Lamott. Man, can she write. Plus, her hair is awesome.

Just for the discussion’s sake– has anyone here tried to adopt an unwanted baby in this country? The expense is absolutely insane, prohibitive for many families with moderate incomes. The wait can be YEARS, especially if they’d like to bring home a baby to begin its life with them.

It’s hard for me to be “pro-choice” when I see my infertile friends waiting and waiting and waiting and scrimping and saving in hopes that they’ll someday find a baby.

But the system’s screwed up when there are mommas and daddies wanting babies and babies needing parents and the two can’t be brought together.

This world is so broken. I think that’s part of why the Christian worldview speaks to me.
omuchacha on October 19th, 2006 6:24 am

When I was younger and in college, etc. I took every precaution I could against getting pregnant. I used the pill and I made the guys wear condoms. I wasn’t going to get myself into a situation that would require an abortion to get out of - though honestly, if I did get pregnant that’s probably what I would have done. Now I’m unable to use any form of hormonal birth control - and it scares the hell out of me even though I’m married and in a good situation because I’m not sure I want a second child.

I have my son now. He turns 1 year old on Sunday. Reflecting back on the past two years (one carrying him, and one since he arrived) having a baby is HARD work. Even though my son was wanted, planned for and has been loved since before we even saw him as a little yolk sac at 5 weeks on the ultrasound, there have been times in the last year that made me realize how someone who might not have wanted their child or might not have planned for them could cross some of those seemingly uncrossable lines and do horrible things to their children out of frustration, anger, and hopelessness. While I know those things are horribly wrong, I now understand how they could happen in a way I never could before. (Hormones, lack of sleep and a crying or inconsolable baby can drive you to the edge pretty quickly, and if you were close already? Eek!) I honestly believe even more now than I ever did before that abortion needs to be kept safe, legal, and available. And I too agree with the others who said that if you disagree with the right to have an abortion for someone else, then you had better work to make darn sure that people are educated and birth control is easily and readily available to people of all income and education levels so people can avoid the need for an abortion in the first place.
katie d on October 19th, 2006 6:29 am

Kudos on another thoughtfully well-written entry, especially on such a sensitive subject.

I was raised Lutheran and still embrace those values, though I do not practice organized religion, liking, as I do, to think for myself, and favoring tolerance over hellfire. I’m pro-choice, anti-abortion, and I think women should have the option without shame or bullshit, but I also think it’s pretty frigging reprehensible to use it as birth control, and i’ve met some who have. I believe the soul is born at conception, so for my part, it would be a hideously difficult thing to do, to end a life via abortion, and I thank God I have never had to make the decision.

HOWEVER.

I was an adopted baby. My adoptive parents were abusive, and childhood was hell. I’m still dealing with it. I tell you this because were I faced with a pregnancy I am in no way able to properly care for, I would abort the baby. I can’t get my own life together enough to find healthy, well-rounded relationships. There’s no fucking way in hell I am taking chances with my own judgement in picking a couple to raise my child, and there’s an even bigger no fucking way in hell I’m letting the state of California do it - they thought Jack & Mary Doyle would make outstanding parents. I will kill a child in its embrionic state before I plunge it into the hell I was placed in. (I think the odds of it being adopted by good people are not in its favor; I know too many damaged people.) I hope God would forgive me for that. But I hope even more I’m never in a position to decide.
Emblita on October 19th, 2006 6:38 am

It’s impossible to tell you just how different this is in Europe… I mean since abortion was made legal in the 70’s the laws haven’t been touched much… and I doubt any politician or judge would dare.
I am pro-choice all the way, what people do with their bodies is their responsibility and choice, it is not my place, nor the governments place to tell them what and how to go about things. That being said, I’m all for more sex-education, because (as has been pointed out on numerous occations here) no one wants to have an abortion. I doubt that any woman has ever considered it a form of BC, it is simply too traumatic an experience to be able to function that way.
I have fortunatly never had to make that choice, but am glad that its there.
Sympathetic Reader on October 19th, 2006 7:46 am

Thank you Linda. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I too had an abortion when I was younger, and now that I am happily married, with secure finances, and lots of love to give, I often think I do not deserve to have children because I had an abortion. I read your blogs and see how happy you are with Riley and it often makes me think of having a child. As awkward as this sounds, knowing that you had an abortion makes me somehow more peaceful with my choice so many years ago.
Jennifer on October 19th, 2006 8:15 am

This was wonderful to read. Thank you. Sometimes I am jealous of the people whose faith is so strong that they are sure that they can and should force everyone (by law or other means) to abide by their rules. But most of the time, it just makes me angry.

Thanks for sharing your story.
april on October 19th, 2006 8:25 am

Your interview has been posted. I hope you’re happy with how it all came out. Thank you again.
Dawn on October 19th, 2006 9:00 am

I have always been staunchly pro-choice. I feel there should be no limits at all on when a woman can have an abortion. Like many others here have already stated though that doesn’t mean I celebrate abortions.

I recently had a child and if anything it cemented my feeling that abortion needs to continue to be safe and legal and more needs to be done to make it accessible. I loved being pregnant and truly revel in being a mother but it’s something that has to be chosen. It’s too hard of a thing to do to have it forced upon you in any way. There is also the terrible burden of wanting a child, conceiving a child and then discovering that your fetus will be stillborn or that it carries a horrible genetic defect.
velocibadgergirl on October 19th, 2006 9:15 am

This is a GREAT GREAT post. I feel very similarly to you and many of the commenters.

I am staunchly pro-choice, because I wouldn’t want anyone else to be able to make that difficult decision for me, and I don’t feel it’s my place to make it for anyone else. Therefore, choice is what’s right.

I am also going through the faith / religion / spirituality struggle. I was raised Catholic, but don’t really feel drawn to the church experience anymore. I still love to go to Christmas Mass for the tradition, but feel closer to God out in nature. Seeing how so many crazy / hateful people blare their “Christianity” from the rooftops makes me uncertain if that’s a label I want anyone to associate with me.

I know that when I finally have children, my worldview is going to be rocked to the core.

It makes me so very happy to know there are other people out there, thinking these things being brave enough to write them out.

So, THANKS. You rule. xoxo
Lawyerish on October 19th, 2006 10:09 am

Well, color me impressed. I was cringing as I hit the “comments” button, expecting the link to open and food and other flying objects come out of the screen from all the wrasslin’. And yet: nothing. It’s a testament to your lovely and sensitive approach to this subject, Linda. I’ve been quietly reading along for a while, enjoying everything with a little smile on my face; but just now was compelled to weigh in to give you kudos for presenting this so beautifully.

I saw the Bodies exhibit here in New York, and had the same feeling you did. It didn’t change my pro-choice stance at all, but it is a stark reminder of human development in its earliest form. Also, it made me tremendously sad for women who experience miscarriages — when you see a fetus at 12 weeks that truly looks like a teensy person, and know that people lose their babies then and even later, you realize just how wrenching the experience must be.

As for religion, I am sort of a quietly spiritual person (a few-times-a-year churchgoer and Episcopalian — read: very liberal), and I am going to have to check out Ms. Lamott, because she sounds right up my alley. I grew up in a Southern Baptist town surrounded by screechy Bible-thumpers and cat-sweatshirt people, and I am so refreshed when I hear about someone who presents Christianity in the intelligent, serene and positive light it deserves.
Colleen on October 19th, 2006 11:18 am

What a thought-provoking discussion. Thanks, Linda, for a great post.
wn on October 19th, 2006 11:37 am

Great Post (as usual) Linda and kudos to the peoples for engaging in this debate in a respectful and insightful way.

I was struck by what Staci said about teenagers being shown things such as the Bodies Exhibit.

I know some people are faced with the choice as to whether to have an abortion because their birth control really did fail…or because they were raped, etc…but there are others who simply did not really think of the consequences of their actions (please don’t misinterpret this statement as me passing judgement…mistakes happen and I firmly believe in having options available including abortion) …I wonder however whether kids might take birth control a bit more seriously (thus avoiding the difficult choice as to whether to have an abortion) if they had more knowledge about the biological realities of development in the womb….

just something I am wondering….
sundry on October 19th, 2006 11:49 am

I thought that exact thing, wn. It’s kind of an expensive exhibit - $25.00 a head, I think - and I hope there are opportunities for schools to visit at a discount.

(Of course, parents would probably flip and protest it, since there are naked (gasp) penises attached to the cadavers.)

I certainly fell into the group you mention who did not take the consequences seriously enough. I don’t know if seeing an exhibit like this would have made me be more responsible or not. I had a lot of knowledge and education and yet I still took stupid risks back then. What does it take to get through people’s heads? I wish I knew, so I could make sure I provide it for Riley.
angela on October 19th, 2006 12:50 pm

if they show Faces Of Death in drivers ed, they should show stuff like this in sex ed.
Elizabeth on October 19th, 2006 1:38 pm

Just wanted to thank you for this post. It got me back to thinking (and writing) about how my miscarriage and current pregnancy have made me give my position on abortion a little more thought.

Also, I think Angela makes a good point. I wish the exhibit were coming to DC.
B on October 19th, 2006 2:23 pm

I have been pro-choice for a long time, but I do think it’s important to not overstate the issue … not everyone who is pro-choice thinks of a fetus as a ‘clump of cells’ or however the matter tends to get framed. A lot of people cite Clinton’s “safe, legal, and rare” as their touchpoint, and I think it’s a pretty good one.

I became a thousand times more pro-choice when I had a miscarriage, even though I very much wanted that baby. That probably sounds pretty contradictory, but I was just very aware of how many different medical professionals were up in my business (figuratively and, uh, literally), and how much the uncertainty and actual physical pain were taking over my life, and now I really cannot imagine forcing a woman to go through the experience of pregnancy if she does not want to. Forget motherhood, pregnancy is a situation that really has to be a choice.
Leah on October 19th, 2006 3:48 pm

You’ve done it again. Someone please give this woman an award.
anon on October 19th, 2006 4:31 pm

I’m with Sympathetic Reader. I had an abortion at 18 and I know my life would not be where it is today had I not done that. I was a stupid kid without a clue. Now I am happily married and while still struggling a bit financially, can’t wait to have a child. I am terrified I will not be able to get pregnant because of the abortion. Like God wouldn’t deem me worthy. So it made me feel so much better reading all these lovley women’s comments and knowing there are a lot more out there like me who are mothers today. Like you.

I still carry a lot of guilt but I know it was the best decision for me. The father was an ass and I highly doubt he’d be active in the child’s life. We’d probably be broke. Is that fair? But is it also fair that I chose how MY life would turn out over the baby’s? It would have been loved to high heaven, but it would have been tough. I still don’t know. All I know is I’d have a 9 year old kid today and that freaks me out. How would it have turned out? Would I even have carried to term? I could have had a miscarriage. We’ll never know.

So I truly hope that my husband and I will be able to conceive, and I will honor the child that could have been by making sure our baby is loved and taken care of. The way ALL children should be.

Thank you so much for this post, and this discussion.
D on October 19th, 2006 8:15 pm

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart;”

Jeremiah 1:4
Jonniker. » Throw Down Your Arms on October 19th, 2006 8:51 pm

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