August 16, 2006

Well, I hardly know how I’ll find time to update this website when I’ve got all this new music to listen to. Holy shit, did you guys ever kick down with the awesome suggestions. I’ve spent an obscene amount of time on iTunes in the last 24 hours, and Pandora? Best website EVER, I can’t believe I’d never heard of it before. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

This is my week for paycheck-frittering, I guess, because in addition to my mp3 investments I decided to brave the Sephora at the Snooty Mall near my office today. Because it’s the Snooty Mall, there were all kinds of Snooty People in Sephora, including one woman who browsed every single cramped aisle while pushing a giant stroller, her older toddler running batshit willy-nilly, grabbing samples and smearing lipstick everywhere. Every now and then she’d halfheartedly yell at her sample-monkey, while shoving the stroller into people’s calves then acting pissy about it (“Excuse me”). I suppose if you have no other way to visit Sephora without the kids in tow, then you must bring the kids along, but…um, maybe next time buy off Amazon? Or something? 

Actually, the entire Snooty Mall–which is always crawling with young fashionistas and their offspring–seemed to be experiencing a collective toddler terror attack this afternoon. I saw at least four different kids having some variant of screaming meltdown as I walked through the mall to Sephora and back; one small boy was outside of the Land of Nod shrieking “NO! NO! NO!” at his mother, who appeared to be attempting to reason with him. 

I try not to gawp openly at public tantrums but I secretly scan the entire scene because I dread the day when I am the adult and Riley is the horrible, snot-nosed demon that the passersby would like to drop-kick. I mean, I have no idea what the right thing to do in that situation is. Today I saw kids that seemed generally to be having a fit of the brats, and my inclination would be not to reason or explain or soothe, but rather to grab and Remove From the Premises, perhaps to be ultimately dropped into a deep dark well somewhere with only a half-retarded Lassie dog to incorrectly bark their location (“What’s that girl? There’s a boy trapped in a smell? A what?”). But of course that may not be the best parenting move and maybe those kids were super tired and cranky and their blood sugar had dropped from a lack of cheese goldfish?

Shit, I don’t know. I’ll tell you this, though: the only way I would take Riley into a crowded, teeming Sephora packed with flint-eyed women who will shank you with an eyelash curler if you get between them and the last BeneTint cheek stain is if he’s been tagged with a 6 cc tranq dart loaded with a ketamine-and-Darvon cocktail. 

Anyway, the reason I was going to Sephora was to buy this crazy makeup I’ve heard raves about (the law of averages dictates that at least one of you has used this and you now hate it with the fire and heat of a thousand hateful suns, if so then you must leave me to my one night of dreams and promise) I’m a huge sucker for word of mouth product evangelizing (anyone remember The Soap?), and when it comes to ridiculously overblown snake-oil claims about beauty concoctions? Why, color me helpless. Sephora has a “Get Started” kit of this makeup that includes two foundations, some brushes, some other crap, and – get this – a fucking HOW-TO DVD. 

Yes, because I have so much free time in the morning I need a makeup application process that requires a DVD in order to master it. Maybe I’ll do some Pilates while I’m at it, right? (Ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa. Ha. Ow, I hurt myself. Too bad I’m not more limber in order to laugh about exercising.)

I am both stupid and gullible, say hallelulah, but who knows – perhaps via the magic of “Bare Escentuals” I will be transformed into a peach-skinned, gently glowing maternal-yet-sexy-and-ageless goddess of beauty and light. Also, it’s possible I will crap a single, solitary gold ingot tomorrow morning after my morning coffee. You never know. If that happens, I’m heading back to iTunes, because I’ve got a lot of music-buying to do.

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Jem
Jem
18 years ago

Tell us if it works! I desperately need make-up that looks good for once, rather than orange.

deanna
18 years ago

i LOVE my bare essentials makeup. especially for summer its great because its super lightweight and controls the “summer shine.” i use a liquid concealer under my eyes [by cargo, my other favorite makeup brand] because using the powder so close irritates my contacts. but its great stuff. and their eye shadows are amazing for layering and im in LOVE with their “natural light” hilighters. that i can carefully put under my eyes once i have the concealer as a nice base for it to hold onto. and the warmth all-over color is amazing.

not only am i an itunes addict, im a makeup junkie as well. admitting it is half the battle ;)

Elissa
Elissa
18 years ago

My MIL swears by that stuff. And I have to admit – she looks really good! She gave me a few different little bottles of stuff that wasn’t the right color for her and it is fun to use. Although I only wear makeup once or twice a year. I’ll definitely look forward to your reviews!

Stacey
Stacey
18 years ago

Good luck! I have the stuff, and I do love it when I have the time to put it on. Which is not often. I have room in my morning routine for eyeliner and mascara. That is all. It’s mainly a treat I reserve for when I dress up on the weekend. On those oh-so-special occasions when I actually take off my pajamas on a Saturday or something.

Oh- and the DVD???

Thrilling. Two thumbs up. Heh.

Em
Em
18 years ago

I really love the bare minerals makeup (Despite the fact that I think spelling “essentials,” “escentuals” is maddening). The only problem I’ve had with it is that it sometimes makes my face sort of itchy if I sweat a little. It’s so humid here in Joja that sometimes I get a little dewey in the face….I’m not some sweaty freak or anything.

Also, I missed out on the music commenting the other day, but I’m going to second everyone who recommended Guster. They’re new album is great, but I think “Keep it together” is their best. Ben Folds is always a winner, and his newest album (from April of 2005) is just as lovely as everything else he produces.

Em
Em
18 years ago

Also…if you’re not sure about the makeup, Ulta stores carry a cheaper “starter kit” that only has one brush (instead of three) and without the “skin rever-upper.” Sorry for the double commenting, I’m a lame lurker.

Me Myself and I
18 years ago

Seems like those little shits I mean “children” are everywhere lately. You haven’t lived till you hear a 5 year old tell his Nan that she made him cry and that now hes coughing and its all her fault! I know I have no right to judge but does it seem like there are a lot of mothers out there who are having control issues? I had the joy of a little one (around 4) at the doctors office the other day, he yelled threw stuff took toys from the other little kids and made me want to give him a talking to. You know what his mother did? She yelled abit, told him he wasnt getting a surprise moaned to anyone who would listen that she could do nothing with him then finally she asked him if he was hungry or would he like to be picked up – HUH? I’m sorry, did she just reward him for being a snot nosed little brat?

Sorry for the rant but you struck a nerve!

I’ve been lurking for quite awhile, been meaning to say Hey – you have a gorgeous kid there! for ages. Riley is the cutest!

Love your blog, keep up the good work!

Holly
Holly
18 years ago

Hey, I have that and I totally LOVE it! My brother lives in San Francisco and they have their flagship store there so I stopped in “just for a look, I swear” and ended up blowing a couple hundie real quick like. I got the foundation, the mineral veil, a brush and then a bunch of other crap I didn’t need, lipsticks and glosses and the like. I love it all! Especially the foundation! I don’t use it all the time b/c it can be a little heavy but Nothing, I mean it, has ever covered zits the way that shit does! Seriously! Red spots, gone, poof! I use a small roundish eye shadow brush (crease brush) for the application onto blemishes and under eye etc. and it works like a charm! I have pretty dark under eye circles so I actually use a lighter concealer under my eyes first and then the bare minerals and finish the whole thing off w/ the mineral veil or (since I’m out right now) powder. Good luck! Post what you think! -h

Gentry
18 years ago

Lately, I’ve been noticing when a toddler has a meltdown, the parents do a quick scan and calculation. If more than 5 people are being annoyed, they remove the offensive element until he/she calms down.

My seething hatrid goes to respect, compassion and admiration in .3 seconds.

Lesley
Lesley
18 years ago

Prescriptives makes the best foundation in the world. I have sworn by it for years. It’s light and there are colours to match every skin type and tone. You don’t even look like you’re wearing makeup. It never makes me break out and never irritates my skin.

Emily
18 years ago

Thank you much for asking for those music suggestions, because last night I spent a good two hours on Limewire — er, I mean, PAYING MONEY FOR MUSIC — based on your million commenters’ reccommendations. Unfortunately, I don’t know much about make-up quality, because pretty much all of it makes me hideously break out.

jonniker
18 years ago

I have rosacea, and when it flares up, it’s bad (not like rosy cheeks bad. It flares up like the hot-red itchy heat of 1,000 suns bad, and spreads like wildfire within hours. Oh, and did I mention it’s a rash? With PUSTULES?). Mineral make-up does not irritate it, unlike most others, and when it rises to the occasion, I can actually cover that shit up without making it worse until the Noritate and Finacia kicks in. It’s also a nice look, and it’s easy to apply if you don’t over do it (and mattify yourself to corpse-like levels). I did find that Bare Minerals was just slightly more irritating than others, so for years, I’ve been using Aromaleigh (www.aromaleigh.com), and I’ve been thrilled to bits with the results. When you’re done with the BE stuff, try them out. Oh, and holy God, it’s cheaper there.

Kaire
18 years ago

Pandora is my secret lover … there is nothing better for making up extremely ecclectic personal radio stations!

Julie
Julie
18 years ago

Throw me in the “I have that makeup and I love it” camp. Skip the DVD. It’s a thick powder, put it on like a thick powder, you’ll be fine after the first or second try. And in a month you’ll be getting fully made up in like three minutes, no lie.

katie d
18 years ago

I hate, hate, HATE people who don’t control their bratty freaking kids. I have spent nearly all of my worklife dealing with the public, so I got plenty of opportunity to judge parenting skills and learn all about them, and I can tell you that without exception, the worst kids came from people who set no limits and there were no repercussions for the little brats if they don’t behave. I don’t care how inured you are to your child’s bullshit, nothing fills me with tight rage faster than having to listen to a temper-tantrum, and it’s rude as hell to force me to. Kids need limits. If you firmly say no, and let Riley know there are repercussions for unacceptable behavior by *enforcing* the no, I’m sure he’ll be fine. That’s what my parents did, and all of their friends still comment on how well-behaved and polite we were. When I have kids, I will parent them in the same no-nonsense style my Mom did. I have friends who try to tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about and that’ll all change once I have a kid and find out what happens when you say no, but I know my levels of patience and tolerance, and there is no way in HELL I am getting run by a 5 year old.

And on a side note, “sample-monkey”. Hee!

Laura
18 years ago

I’m so glad you liked that makeup and that all the other posters have good things to say about it. I got sucked in by their infomercial a few mos back (when I was the queen of late night feedings and thus, infomercials). I toyed with the idea of ordering, but then a friend told me she didn’t like their makeup, so I bagged the idea. You may have forced me to go to Sephora (and our snooty mall) today.

warcrygirl
18 years ago

I use Clinique exclusively; I have a thing against makeup that has any kind of scent or flavor. That and I have the world’s crankiest skin. The Mall Meltdown? Immediate removal is best. I’ve had to remove my children from church IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SERVICE a few times because my kids decided to channel Satan during the Lord’s Prayer. Please take pics of the new you and let us know which tunes you got.

Elaine
Elaine
18 years ago

Having worked at the UW many years ago, I remember when the Snooty Mall was just a small fun place to go on my lunch hour. It’s a shame it’s so snooty now.

aoife
18 years ago

This whole toddler preschooler thing completely blows right now. We are in the midst of tantrum angst right now… To be honest, I would beat the shit out of my kid if I thought it would do any good (it would make ME feel better)… but it wouldn’t – he would just scream and cry louder and he would be afraid of me (scared afraid) and wouldn’t link it to his behavior.

Punishing toddlers is like punishing yourself. Most of the time, it involves not going places YOU wanted to go to and not eating food you wanted to eat. If I am at the grocery store with a cart full of groceries and little man has a meltdown y’all are just gonna have to deal with it because if I spank, someone will get on their little horn and report you to CSP and if I go outside to get him to STFU someone will take my cart or my ice cream will melt or some such bs.

We stay home a lot nowadays. Then I can just put the kiddo in his room and let him get it out.

Adrien
18 years ago

Bare Minerals has no scent or flavor! I love it too but the key is to use a very, very small amount when starting. Apply, let it meld a little, then apply more if neccessary. My skin has never been happier.

Rumblelizard
Rumblelizard
18 years ago

Wah! My music suggestions are stuck in moderation because the modbot…..hateth me!

Donna
Donna
18 years ago

Yes, BE is nice until you start getting really wrinkly, or your skin is very dry, or you live in a dry climate, I do all three.
Other than my problems, it IS great stuff.
My daughter uses it too, but I needed something I could carry with me so I’m using I want to say revlon makeup, powder foundation in a brush/bottle. May not be that brand, but it is cheaper than BE works the same for the foundation part anyway, and is very portable. My makeup is currently out in my car or I would check.
Kids in a mall screaming, need a smack, and their parents who are allowing it, need two. I was in a walmart the other day and there was a kid that wanted to be held, and everytime her 14 year old mother put her down she screamed so she picked her back up. This went on all over the store, for at least 45 minutes. Ear splitting shrieks, that were rewarded by being carried instead of being taken out to the car.
Yes, my kids tried it too, but they only did it once, were taken out to the car, given a lecture, and taken home, and they didn’t get to go the next time.
It will happen, what matters is what your reaction to it is. Kids are something.
My grandaughter called to tell me she has a new teddy that is very soft and has clothes on it. There’s the reward for raising the little monkeys right there, babies on the phone.

gabby
gabby
18 years ago

I LOVE it. It’s the only makeup I will wear now. I was so skeptical, but have been using it for a year and STILL can’t believe that it looks even better at 4:00 than it did when I put it on at 7. Amazing stuff.

And I did my own downloading today after reading all your music suggestions you got! Thanks!

Jenn
18 years ago

This is so odd LOL I was just telling my friend how patient American moms are with their kids and all. Seriously, I’ve been here eight months, not seen a single tantrum anywhere. Maybe I’m just lucky. C’mon, I need to feel better about MY kids so gimme the address to this mall?!

JB (a different one)
JB (a different one)
18 years ago

Just to point out to the people who don’t have children but who are sure they know what parents should always or never do with their misbehaving children because you know what your mother or father did… you are confusing the experience of being parented with the experience of parenting. That’s like driving a car and thinking you could build one. If you ever have children, you’ll be surprised at what you do and don’t do, that you said you never or always would.

This is essentially the mistake of talking instead of listening, and believing that a mother should fit the mold you’ve made for her. Motherhood is complicated, a network of relationships, not just the state of having a child. Instead of judging a desperate mother with a screaming toddler, try asking her what she needs. Then listen to what she says. Then do it.

Wendi
18 years ago

I’m so glad I’ve left the public tantrum stage of mothering behind! (At least I hope so…my kids are now 12 and 16.) I pretty much never shopped with my son, who refused to stay in a stroller or sit in a shopping cart. He would stand up and scream for me to hold him and push the cart instead, which was pretty much impossible.

Anyway, I just have to rave about mineral makeup. I never watched a DVD to learn to put it on but I think I’m doing okay with it. LOL For me, it’s faster than regular makeup, makes my skin look better, doesn’t feel as caked as foundation but covers any red spots or uneven skin tone. I don’t work for this company, I swear, but I totally recommend J.Lynne Cosmetics at http://www.jlynnecosmetics.com . She has great prices and her stuff is wonderful on my skin. I’ve never used BE so I can’t compare the two, but she has a lot of customers that switched to her products from BE for various reasons.

One other tip — the applicator makes a huge difference. I use a kabuki brush but started with a flocked sponge. I like them both but the sponge goes on a lot heavier. It definitely looks better if you use a light touch! You can also get the ‘itchies’ if you use a cheap brush — it can be hard to tell if it’s the makeup or the brush that makes you itch, actually. For me, it’s always the brush. They’re a little more expensive but a good quality brush makes all the difference.

Ulli
Ulli
18 years ago

I love love love mineral make up. Used to never wear any make up due to severe fear of skin suffocation…but then I decided, wow, you are 30 now, your skiin is pretty good, but it’s time to grow up a bit. ….then I started wearing it and thought “hm, I like it , but no one would notice”.

However.

One day I ran out of the house (late night, alcohol, uhm…ect ect.), didn’t put it on ect ect…I walked by a mirror at work and went “holy SHYTE” ..that stuff does make a beautiful world of a difference.

Sunshyn
18 years ago

Tantrums are to be ignored. Completely. You may remove the child from the mall or whatever, but you don’t respond to the tantrum. Hard to do, I know, but the reason children throw tantrums is to get attention, and negative attention is still attention. I’m dealing with the autistic tantrum, including aggression. I have to stop the aggression, of course, so I wrap myself around him and say, “Quiet hands” (or feet) and “We don’t hit.” But I don’t LOOK at him. If it’s really bad, I put him in time out. But I don’t LOOK at him. And, of course, there’s no McDonald’s or new car or whatever. We leave. Period. Even if I’m not done shopping. A little different at the doc’s office, but hopefully you’ve practiced this enough somewhere else that this sort of thing doesn’t happen at the doctor’s office. Oh, and distract and divert. Always have something in hand for distraction and diversion. We have books we love, or cars (cars were a bad idea in church, I found out). Whew. I just try not to take him anywhere difficult unless my husband is with me to help, because he weighs over 40 pounds and is STRONG.

Heather
Heather
18 years ago

Totally makup beauty junkie, Hello my name is Heather. The Bare Minerals is the most awesome makeup I have ever used and after two years I rarely have any skin flare ups. Just keep in mind when applying less really is more. : ) It took a little while to get the application right.

Shannon
18 years ago

Two things:

1. Bellevue Mall rats: fear them.

2. Why *purchase* music when you can DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE?! Via Rapidshare. Ahem. I’ve said too much already. . .

ferd
ferd
18 years ago

Thank you and your poster person for pandora. It is excellent!

Rae
Rae
18 years ago

“and Pandora? Best website EVER, I can’t believe I’d never heard of it before.”

yes….I have no idea where I first heard about it…the current thing that kills me is that I can put it on a blog (like this one) and share my taste with the world! bwahahahahaha!

Sorry, thinking about conquering the world today. at least through music

Jessamyn
18 years ago

I love Pandora, too! I tend to think that if I know about it (when it comes to the internet) that everybody else already knows about it – if I’d realized so few people knew about Pandora, I would have recommended it to more people long ago!

As for the kids in the mall, MAN. As the parent of a toddler who is only recently, as she approaching two and a half, entering the “terrible two” stage, I say that I do ALL I CAN to prevent others from having to suffer from her public outrage, when it occurs. Usually this means that we don’t go to the mall together at all, or if we do, it is me AND her father, so that while one of us looks at makeup, the other can entertain the child, and when the other one looks at men’s shirts, the other can take over. If I end up taking her by myself, then I do not browse – I go in, I pick up purchase, I go to stand in line. If she starts to yell or throw herself down on the floor, I pretty much give her one chance to respond to reason, and if there’s no response, then we leave. I resent the wild crazy kids even more, I think, than I did when I didn’t have an occasionally-wild child of my own, because I figure if I put a lot of time and energy and sacrifice into making sure that my child understands that there are limits, and if she doesn’t understand it, then I do what I need to do to TEACH her. I figure that’s my job.

It’s probably not surprising, though, that so many kids are like that. How often do you go to the grocery store and notice that almost everyone but you seems to think that they are the only ones in the whole place? Obviously, these people had parents. And many of these people also ARE parents. It’s a vicious damn cycle.

LLL
LLL
18 years ago

I have used the Bare Escentuals as well. And like Em, have had some problems with it making my face feel slightly itchy. It doesnt last too long though and isnt that bad. Anyhow, I relly like the foundation but am non-plussed by the eyeshadow. I like the fact you just brush it on. And you really dont need much of it — let us know how well the compact works.

Ashley
18 years ago

I haven’t ever used BE but I used to work for Estee Lauder and got to “play” in most all the brands. I really like Mac and Benefit.

I forgot to mention the other day, you might really like Jem and Hem, I really didn’t realize they rhymed until now – They’re two separate groups. I’m sure you’ll like them both though. Try “Finally Woken” by Jem and “Half Acre” by Hem.

Kari
Kari
18 years ago

I

Kari
Kari
18 years ago

??? I am confused. My comment did not show up properly.
ANYWAY, as I was saying. I

Kari
Kari
18 years ago

… Your site conspires against me. I love limewire. If you don’t want to pay for your music it’s a good choice. If it doesn’t work this time, I may shoot someone in the face.

Deanna
Deanna
18 years ago

Sundry, I confess -I am a product whore. I actually left work early to stop at my lovely CVS to purchase one of those “in between” coloring kits – you know, all the shine to cover the gray long enough until you HAVE to color again. And of course, I cannot leave CVS without at least ONE new lip-gloss, eyeliner, any/or mascara. Alas, ye olde checkbook barked at me…I do after all work at a non-profit Museum. (Hey you Seattle-ians, visit http://www.fernbankmuseum.org so I can indulge in my product addition, will ya?)

Oh, my point. I too am fascinated by the Bare Minerals propaganda. Please do share the results.

And, as always, Riley is the cutest freakin’ boy I’ve ever seen! Please keep posting those picks!

Jenny J.
18 years ago

This is cracking me up because my mother-in-law, who is a crazy, overly done-up, CLOSETS full of Makeup, home shopping network addict, got me started on this stuff about 5 years ago. She bought it on the home shopping network (like all our gifts, her clothes and furniture), and assured me how wonderful it was.

I like it!

I just can’t believe that you, Sundry, a cool chica always aware of the hippest trends are talking about this! Ha! Maybe the ol’ MIL isn’t as nutty and out of touch as I thought! She was actually way ahead of her time! It is also kind of crazy that something that used to be sold on QVC is now for sell for $$$ at Sephora.

Chloe
18 years ago

Okay, one more person with their snake oil claims… I’ve never used Bare Escentuals. If they don’t work for you (it contains bismuth oxychloride, which some people are allergic to… it can make you itch. Also ramps up the shinyness, which I don’t care for), I would totally suggest http://www.everydayminerals.com/ They also have many slathering fans (they do not advertise, though), and they have multiple formulations for those of us who don’t want to look quite that “dewy”. I wear the “intensive” formula. They have free samples (must pay shipping though, which is very reasonable) to try it out, and they are VERY affordably priced, especially compared to Bare Escentuals (god, I hate the way that’s spelled). I recommend the kits. :-) End of commercial.

Oh, also for those of us who are really really white, everyday minerals has lighter shades than BE and other foundations. So, it kind of rocks in that sense too.

As usual, I have nothing worthwhile to add when it comes to the whole “mothering” thing, ah well. Make up, that I can do.

Brooke
18 years ago

Hey, I don’t know jack about makeup, but my Mom loves that mineral stuff. She keeps trying to get me to use it.

I am with Katie D and Sundry. I have NO patience for tantrums. My daughter rarely had them, but I never looked around to see who was annoyed. If I was annoyed, that was enough. We’d leave. No matter where we were. Mall? Gone. Grocery store? Abandon cart. Disneyland? Done here (the beauty of annual passes is never feeling like you have to stay and amortize your admission fee). She doesn’t throw tantrums now and hasn’t for years.

You can be firm, you can say no. Be the parent, not the buddy.

Ashley
18 years ago

Brooke has a point. AND another benefit to that is, if you follow through with what you say you’re going to do, abandon ship and leave like you should, the kid figures out fairly quickly that what they’re doing isn’t working.

kate
18 years ago

I, too, get suckered by others recommendations on make-up……but the truth is I suck at applying it. And now since I work on the water all day make-up is useless. Although every once in a while (every other day) we have people show up to gp Kayaking with us who are wearing a full face of make-up. And I try to gently suggest that they will look like a drowned racoon as soon as it gets wet. The only woman who didn’t was wearing MAC,
All in all I have to stay away from being tempted to buy these things because ultimately they become bookends in my bathroom cabinet. And, damn, make-up has gotten waaaay $$$$$$

Michael
18 years ago

Hey JB (the other one), that was an awesome comment. I totally agree with you.

porovitch
porovitch
18 years ago

Makeup has always beckoned to me: exciting, mysterious little pots and jars and cases…each with it’s VERY OWN bit of magic. :-)

I don’t wear it often, not real coiffed. Oy, I’m all proud if I can manage semi-regular laundry events. So, er, I’ve got mys. & exc. bits of mag. old enough to vote!

Blythe disregard for product freshness, check. Slavish devotion to a gang of wee containers, check. Kinda creepy, right. Go figure.

Three tiny boxes of “natural powdered mineral” eyeshadow (gold, copper and champagne) are the only ones that get to play. I love these, they look like fairy dust ought to. Depending on how it’s applied, it gives a warm, matte effect or more of a sleek and glossy look, and it stays on forever

I haven’t stopped by for awhile, and am pleased to find you flush and fit. You’re a lovely Mommie!!

Victor Adams
17 years ago

Google is the best search engine

Mary
16 years ago

I found your blog by accident but am glad I did

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ScFarmLin
16 years ago

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